Topic: New Ammo for the Troops

[Joey]

Here's an interesting read.
Sorry if this is a re-post, I didn't see it when I searched it?

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/02/usmc-adopts-new-open-tip-sost-5-56-ammo/

Here's another one.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/06/u-s-army-issues-new-m855a1-ammo-to-troops-in-afghanistan/#comment-5524

[agunforeachhand]

Looks pretty impressive but then I don't know that much about ammo.

[XDMHMMWV]

OORAH! About darn time.
To my knowledge, the problem was never the short barrel, it was the @#$@ ammo.
Rounds designed for making a big hole are always better then ball rounds.

[TrooperBrian]

I've seen it before but its interesting, most "open tip" bullets are not designed to expand like a hollow point would. An example of an "open tip" in that sense would be the SMK.

[Nomad]

 Something that been needed, now a different caliber like the  6.8 or 6.5 that would
do a better job..... 

[Precise]

Does anyone know who makes the bullet is and if it's available to the public yet? I'd like to load some up....

[TrooperBrian]

Does anyone know who makes the bullet is and if it's available to the public yet? I'd like to load some up....

Open tips? I'm sure you can find a similar bullet anywhere.

[Joey]

Does anyone know who makes the bullet is and if it's available to the public yet? I'd like to load some up....

Looks kinda like a Nosler Partition?

[9Shooter]

The new bullet, with a lead core (in the top half) and solid copper bottom half, is similar to hunting bullets such as Federal’s Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. The SOST bullet was designed by Federal/ATK, which will produce the loaded ammunition.

Didn't see anything on their website about availability.

[birddog1989]

Didn't see anything on their website about availability.

I just got off the phone with one of the bullet tech guys at ATK and he said a civilian version would be avalable with in the next year.  He couldn't give me a more precise time frame due to the need to fill military contracts first.

[loaded]

Maybe there will be a bunch of ball ammo hitting the market soon, cheaper than it is now

[birddog1989]

I bought 1,000 rounds of ss109 in Missoula last weekend for $425.  Does that count?

[loaded]

Yes thats better, I remmeber awhile back seeing it  about twice that. Maybe plinking will become affordable again

[TrooperBrian]

Yes thats better, I remmeber awhile back seeing it  about twice that. Maybe plinking will become affordable again

.223 is only about 9 cents a round, 9mm about 10 cents. I'm a CRB. 

[goodcomdeadcom]

Greetings, and God bless.

Here's a PDF that deals with the military's new bullets. It's one page at a time. There's some little previous page/next page arrows down at the bottom. I really like what I read there. I want some!

Public m855a1 Briefing Final Approved-1

[Jrhoney]

So the SOST round is a fragmenting round. Doesn't that violate the Geneva convention?
I was under the impression that expanding or fragmenting rounds were just plain not cricket for use by the military.

[Grumblecakes]

you could argue that pretty much any 223 round shot from m16 is a fragmentation round. they all rely on jacket failure to create devastating wounds. The desirability of this is a large reason why the M4 is considered inadequate as the shorter barrel does not maintain the velocity needed to cause jacket failure. In a round about way the government knows its using fragmentation rounds already. Besides i feel the geneva convention is bullshit anyway "lets kill each other by the rules". At the most it should only apply to fighting with nations that have agreed to abide by it. I don't think Islamic extremist give a damn about following it or not.

[e11charlie]

There in lies the paradox with the Geneva convention.  You have all of these countries that abide by it who just happen to be allies.  That makes a lot of sense.  "Since we are friends we will not kill each other inhumanly in the off chance that we fight."  Just remember according to the Geneva convention it is not a double tap until you physically pass the body.  Until then shoot it twenty times.     

[Jeff]

The Geneva Convention was not about ammo.

The Hague Conventions were about ammo (at least covered it).  We didn't sign anything covering the "hollow point" ammo.

[Jrhoney]

I thought something was amiss after I pressed submit. You are right. I remember now because after the Hague conventions passed, the British changed their service rounds from dum-dums to FMJ .303s.

[emathey]

The Geneva Convention was not about ammo.

The Hague Conventions were about ammo (at least covered it).  We didn't sign anything covering the "hollow point" ammo.

Another thing to consider about the Hague Conventions is just how old they are, public/government attitudes towards fighting a war are probably back over 100 years ago.

edit: well that was incomprehensible, I meant to say that public/government attitudes towards fighting a war have probably changed since they were signed over 100 years ago.

[kaen3e]

i have had the bullets for the last two months.  they seem to fly well even for "pulls".  They are made by speer and there is also a 130gr 30cal version.  The 62gr bullets are longer like a 67 or 72 convensional bullet type.  there should be about 75k of the bulets floating around the valley that i have sold.  Federal is the major man. that we have been seeing this bullet type in.  Black Hills also has a contract for the 318.

[mace2364]

OK guys just FYI,

I just left active duty army a few months ago. USMC and the Army are getting different kinds of ammo. The Marines are supposedly actually getting something more effective. The Army is getting M855A1, and as I understand it these are not one in the same.

What I do know for sure is this: early in 2010 the M855A1 project was having problems, mainly in that this ammo was failing the high temp tests and as I recall the army times reported that the Army was shelving the project. Then a couple months later, they report that we WILL be getting it soon(I was in Afghanistan for #4 while all this was happening). There was no mention of fixing the earlier issues. In fact there was no mention at all of the problems this ammo had earlier. What has been stated since the beginning is that M855A1 is lead free. Obviously, if you follow some of what the anti-firearm crowd(who have friends in high places these days) has been up to in recent years, it really no surprise that the powers at be would want lead free ammo for the military. It just seems a little funny that one month, the project is getting shelved, and a couple months later it's back on again with no mention what so ever of the earlier problems. Make no mistake, some people at higher levels in the military play the PC game(lead free ammo is definitely politically correct) and are far from above politics. It also wouldn't be the first time that the Army got some less then desirable ammo. My experience in the service has shown me that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. So all of this has left me a little skeptical of this whole thing. I'm really hoping that I am completely wrong and my fears are unfounded. It wouldn't be the first time for that either I guess.

Unfortunately, the arrival of new ammo will not result in any US military surplus for public consumption. Thanks to the Klintonistas, any ammo surplussed by the military can not be sold as such, it must be destroyed or disassembled first.

Under the laws of war, hollow point ammo is specifically forbidden, so fragmentation is the only mechanism for injury that is legal. Of course the assumption is that both sides are actually legal combatants, otherwise some of the laws of war do not apply. However, our rules of engagement are much more restrictive than the international laws of war.

Well that's my .02. You got what you paid for it.