Author Topic: Brass prep for long range (Read 1612 times)

egress81 · « **on:** November 30, 2009, 07:33:13 PM »

What are you guys doing to your brass for long range use (600+)?

here is my process right now

FL resize
trim
debur/chamfer
flash hole de-bur
clean primer pockets

Nomad · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2009, 09:26:42 PM »

Get a mic for your caliber measure your fired brass and adjust to it on your dies.
Get a primer pocket cutter and cut the pockets so that they are all true and same depth.
weight out your brass as to a medium weight to go with on your brass....
True your necks don't cut much......Neck sizing die would be helpful Redding has interchangeable
neck sizer die like a 334, 335, and 336, for 308 brass...
Measure the depth of the bullet into the rifling and back out three to five thousands and see if they will fit you magazine and you should be good to go.....If not, start to shorten the length to find sweet spot.
work different primers and select 4 or 5 powders work up in 3/10 measurements usually a grain to two grains under max you will find a sweeeet spot, and when you load and are seating the bullet rotate 90 degrees and reseat it to make sure that the bullet is seated properly and also straight true alignment....LUCK

zona5101 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2009, 05:13:52 AM »

two of the suggestion Nomad makes will probably have the biggest impact: necksizing and seating to just off the lands and grooves.

EDGE · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2009, 08:21:22 AM »

What caliber and are you shooting through a bolt gun or gas gun?

Precise · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2009, 10:22:50 AM »

I'd get an over all length gage and build the loads to your specific chamber size:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=570611

TrooperBrian · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:21:19 PM »

Quote from: Nomad on November 30, 2009, 09:26:42 PM

Get a mic for your caliber measure your fired brass and adjust to it on your dies.
Get a primer pocket cutter and cut the pockets so that they are all true and same depth.
weight out your brass as to a medium weight to go with on your brass....
True your necks don't cut much......Neck sizing die would be helpful Redding has interchangeable
neck sizer die like a 334, 335, and 336, for 308 brass...
Measure the depth of the bullet into the rifling and back out three to five thousands and see if they will fit you magazine and you should be good to go.....If not, start to shorten the length to find sweet spot.
work different primers and select 4 or 5 powders work up in 3/10 measurements usually a grain to two grains under max you will find a sweeeet spot, and when you load and are seating the bullet rotate 90 degrees and reseat it to make sure that the bullet is seated properly and also straight true alignment....LUCK

That's good info right there, thanks!

egress81 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:35:47 PM »

The rifle is a Savage with accutrigger and accustock in 7mm Rem mag

I plan on using 140 grain tipped TSX and Berger 168 VLD's

ballardw · « **Reply #7 on:** December 01, 2009, 09:03:02 PM »

Buy brass from a single lot if possible.

Weigh the cases and sort by range of weights AFTER the sizing and trimming. Different weights mean different wall thickness/ case volume.

Nomad · « **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2009, 05:39:57 AM »

On belted magnum cases use the cases three times only, they have a problem splitting
on the web where the belt is......
May want to look at the 175gr for long range shooting as well as 162gr Amax, have read good reviews on the 162 Amax for hunting deer size animals.......
Buying your brass in large lots of say 500 at a time does help....

Precise · « **Reply #9 on:** December 02, 2009, 04:22:03 PM »

I suppose I didn't yuck it up enough on my previous comment

"I'd get an over all length gage and build the loads to your specific chamber size"

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=570611

I have a Remington 700 VSM in .308Win and was testing loads using Sierra 168gr match King bullets. Everything was identical (Brass manufacturing (new), primer pocket sizing, full length case sizing, Powder and charge weights, primers, etc.).

I built the first 20 rounds using Sierra .308 Win. load data for SAMI case dimension and OGIV length. The second 20 rounds were identical except I used an OAL Gage to determine an accurate bullet seating depth for my particular chamber size (I measured 5 times to validate my results for consistency), and built the rounds to that OGIV length. My rifle was zeroed at 100 yards and in a gun vise to remove as much human interaction as possible.

The result was the ones which I built to my specific chamber size and bullet seating depth shot 2 inches higher, and were more consistant than the rounds built to generic standard load data.

Nomad · « **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2009, 07:16:50 AM »

egress81 have you had a chance to work up a load yet??

egress81 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 06, 2009, 09:26:40 AM »

I haven't yet i am still getting componets together.
I finally found some magnum primers,but I am still looking for the Berger hunting VLD's that don't cost a arm and a leg, I think sportsmans wanted $50.00 and midway has them for $39.00 but are out of stock.

I did pick up the Hornday case for the overall length gage, I have a friend who is gonna let me borrow the tool when i get all my stuff together.

Precise, why would the ammo that is loaded longer have a higher POI then the ammo that is SAMI case dimension ?

fj40mojo · « **Reply #12 on:** December 06, 2009, 03:13:10 PM »

Quote from: egress81 on December 06, 2009, 09:26:40 AM

I haven't yet i am still getting componets together.
I finally found some magnum primers,but I am still looking for the Berger hunting VLD's that don't cost a arm and a leg, I think sportsmans wanted $50.00 and midway has them for $39.00 but are out of stock.

I did pick up the Hornday case for the overall length gage, I have a friend who is gonna let me borrow the tool when i get all my stuff together.

Precise, why would the ammo that is loaded longer have a higher POI then the ammo that is SAMI case dimension ?

I'm not Precise but some pretty minor pressure changes can cause significant changes in POI. Case in point I had some hunting ammo that got exposed to moisture one year and the following year I had completely forgot about it. I got a shot at a spike bull at 75yds the first day out and the only shot that he presented me with was a head shot. The rifle was zeroed at 2 inches high at 100 yards so I held on the point of the bulls nose and blew one of his horns off 2" up the base. I estimated the shot went 10" high and later confirmed that at the bench. The culprit was a little bit of corrosion that had adhered the bullet to the case. I turned my seating stem down an 8th of a turn and ran the rest of the rounds through it breaking the corrosion and returned to the bench to find my rifle back at 2" high at 100yds.

As for modified Hornady cases for the LNL gauge you'd be money ahead to buy the correct tap and tap drill and make them yourself from cases fired in your chamber.

Cliff's has Berger bullets too.

sideshowbob · « **Reply #13 on:** December 09, 2009, 09:34:04 PM »

Quote from: Nomad on December 02, 2009, 05:39:57 AM

On belted magnum cases use the cases three times only, they have a problem splitting
on the web where the belt is......
May want to look at the 175gr for long range shooting as well as 162gr Amax, have read good reviews on the 162 Amax for hunting deer size animals.......
Buying your brass in large lots of say 500 at a time does help....

You are correct in not using belted cases for multiple reloads for inexperienced users. However with proper techniques they can be used successfully. They do indeed have problems with case separation when not resized properly. Advanced reloading techniques allow one to resize cases to headspace on the shoulder and measure shoulder setback .001 to .003 for reliable chambering. Trouble with splitting at the belt is caused by full length resizing to headspace on the belt, without regard to excessive case shortening for your particular chamber, thus creating shoulder setback to sometimes dangerous distances.
I shoot a 300 win mag in a stainless mod 70 synthetic and am using a set of 50 cases with excellent results that have been reloaded 18 times with a loss of 2 cases. I use a RCBS case mic to determine shoulder length from once fired cases and resize with full length dies to set my shoulder back .002 and then trim. I used a Sinclair chamber length plug to measure my particular case trim length which luckily is longer than SAAMI max and gives me a little more neck length. Chronographing 180 gr bullets in stock rifle with boss @ 3150 fps (do not attempt to duplicate without load workup) Bob

TrooperBrian · « **Reply #14 on:** December 22, 2009, 04:26:43 AM »

Maybe someone can explain this to me more clearly than a Google search can..

What exactly is the reasoning behind cleaning primer pockets? And does it really make a difference?

Nomad · « **Reply #15 on:** December 22, 2009, 05:01:02 AM »

Cleaning the primer pockets one gets out the carbon which can keep your primer
from seating properly as carbon can plug the prime hole as well......OOPS misfire........
a wise thing to do... yes clean it out.....

egress81 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 01, 2010, 04:18:03 PM »

ok i am still gathering componets, well just waiting on some to arrive, but i have a couple more questions,

is uniforming the primer pocket necessary, what is the purpose?

also i have been reading about using a runout gage/tool to true up the ammo once loaded again is this necessary ?

Nomad · « **Reply #17 on:** January 01, 2010, 05:50:26 PM »

Yes you should do your primer pockets but you do have a choice............
Flashholes on the inside as well as squaring primer pockets will give
you better groups, and again you have a choice......
There is a up coming LRTR shoot on the 16Th of January come out and ask
those that are shooting as to what they do to their brass....All will help...
Get some very costly dies that are setup for your caliber and use them to load
with and as said earlier move it in the die 90* re size then check your sizing and
runout........Luck on you reloading...........Nomad

TrooperBrian · « **Reply #18 on:** January 01, 2010, 06:10:44 PM »

I went with a Pocket Uniformer instead of a Pocket Brush, they do essentially the same thing, but one actually makes each one perfectly uniform and one just brushes it out. They were only a few $ difference.

You'd be amazed how much gunk comes out. Thanks for the advice, Nomad.

Nomad · « **Reply #19 on:** January 01, 2010, 07:51:49 PM »

Get a primer pocket cutter by RCBS most stores that handle reloading will
have them in stock, Work great and keep cutting until no more brass comes
out of the case bottom you will be happy with the results.........

TrooperBrian · « **Reply #20 on:** January 01, 2010, 09:05:02 PM »

Quote from: Nomad on January 01, 2010, 07:51:49 PM

Get a primer pocket cutter by RCBS most stores that handle reloading will
have them in stock, Work great and keep cutting until no more brass comes
out of the case bottom you will be happy with the results.........

I got mine from Cabelas for $21.99, as much as I think Cabelas sucks, they had a $20 off coupon.

fj40mojo · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2010, 12:32:56 PM »

I've noted that several who've responded to this thread sort their brass by weight, something I've never bothered to do until recently. I've got a batch of 150 6.5x55 Win cases all from the same lot, sized and trimmed to the length. I've sorted them into 4 groups 180.0-180.9, 181.0-181.9, 182.0-182.9, and 183.0-183.9 grains. The vast majority, more than half fell into the 181.0-181.9 group with just 6 pieces falling in the 180.0-180.9 group and roughly equal numbers falling into the larger 2 groups. How accurate do you get when sorting by weight? Also what methods do you use for deburring/truing flash holes?

Nomad · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2010, 03:06:24 PM »

Deburring the flashhole from the mouth down use RCBS or lyman, set the depth to cut out the
burr inside just a small venture so as to reduce what some call a flashback..
Cutting all at the same depth
As for the primer pockets cutting use a RCBS cutter, work on them until you feel no more
resistance in the cutter this takes some effort by hand or if you have a electric screw driver
to attach the cutter to or a RCBS TRIM MATE the job is a lot easier..........
Using a three way cutter on the necks first to set height for the cases and the three way cutters
are worth their money.......

Nomad · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2010, 08:41:39 PM »

Flash Hole Deburring Tool
Burrs left on the inside of a flash hole during manufacturing can cause erratic ignition. This handy tool automatically locates the hole and quickly removes the burr. A self-centering pilot collar with an adjustable stop centers deburring tool and prevents the removal of too much brass.
Flash Hole Deburring Tools with Case Pilot Stops:
88102 22 Cal.
88103 6mm Cal.
88107 7mm Cal.
88108 30 Cal.

Flash Hole Case Pilot Stops only:
88122 22 Cal.
88123 6mm Cal.
88124 25

X
X
X
Flash Hole UniformerRemove flash hole burrs for best accuracy

This handy tool removes internal flash hole burrs. Features a tool steel cutter which is inserted into the flash hole through the case neck. Adjustable stop collar allows use with any size case. Burrs are removed with a clockwise turn. Fits .22 to .45 Calibers.

WEIGHT: 4 oz

Price Part #
$14.75 7777760 INSTRUCTIONS BUY NOW

L08 Lyman Products Corporation

egress81 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 15, 2010, 01:05:04 AM »

I use the RCBS flash hole tool and i like it because you can change out the pilot stops for diffrent calibers.

As far as seeing a diffrence in groups, i have always done this step as my dad said it made a diffrence with his so i have always done it and never compared it with non de-burred brass.

egress81 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 16, 2010, 09:54:56 PM »

Well i finally got around to loading up some ammo for long range. I ended up doing it for .223 since I am waiting for Berger to get their machine up and going for some 7mm VLD's.

I got the Hornady overall length tool and seated some 69 grain SMK's .010,.015,.020,and .025 off the lands.The results were amazing!
The .010 load shot into one ragged hole at 100 yards. I haven't had the chance to stretch it out further to see how well it will do at longer distances.

I am thinking about fine tuning it and seeing if I move it close by.002 or so to see if the groups will improve or not affect it at all.

fj40mojo · « **Reply #26 on:** March 17, 2010, 02:34:22 AM »

Quote from: egress81 on March 16, 2010, 09:54:56 PM

Well i finally got around to loading up some ammo for long range. I ended up doing it for .223 since I am waiting for Berger to get their machine up and going for some 7mm VLD's.

I got the Hornady overall length tool and seated some 69 grain SMK's .010,.015,.020,and .025 off the lands.The results were amazing!
The .010 load shot into one ragged hole at 100 yards. I haven't had the chance to stretch it out further to see how well it will do at longer distances.

I am thinking about fine tuning it and seeing if I move it close by.002 or so to see if the groups will improve or not affect it at all.

Sounds good egress, just make sure to watch for pressure signs as you approach the lands.