Topic: 12 vs. 20 guage shotguns - article

[GrayWolf]

I wanted to get some feedback about Massad Ayoob's article on the benefits of a 12-guage vs. 20-gauge shotgun.  Here's the article:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html

Let me know what you think.

[popsgunner]

Good article, very comprehensive, all of it true.

[agunforeachhand]

I am kind of with him on the fact that a skilled shooter can do just as well with a 20gauge versus a 12gauge with a lot more kick.

IMO though go with a 16gauge. It's right in the middle

[GrayWolf]

I asked for feedback because I'm looking to get a shotgun here in December.  I'm averse to getting a sore shoulder, so I thought I would consider a 20-gauge (or possibly 16).

[agunforeachhand]

I asked for feedback because I'm looking to get a shotgun here in December.  I'm averse to getting a sore shoulder, so I thought I would consider a 20-gauge (or possibly 16).

Well Gray I have shot a 20gauge for about 10 years and loved it. It was a old stevens double barrel that my grandpa passed down to me along with hundreds of 20gauge shells. I shot many grouse with that baby. Only markings I could find on it where the J.Stevens tool. It is in really nice condition. Anyways I thought my grandpa knew what he was doing. My grandpa is deceased so I could never really ask him any questions about it. I decided a few months ago to take it to RK to see what was safe to shoot out of it. Well I will be damned it's a 16gauge. Lol Anyways to me there isn't much difference in shooting the 16's out of it as there were shooting the 20's. So go with what feels right to you.

And know I am not a total idiot, just figured that my grandpa knew what he was shooting. I didn't even think anymore about it , especially with no markings on the barrel as to what it was. You are never to old to learn something new

Good luck to you Gray

[GrayWolf]

Good luck to you Gray

Thanks much.  I appreciate the feedback.

I've noticed lately that some stores are selling a pump shotgun (Mossberg, at least) with a home defense barrel (18'') as well as a longer barrel.  But they tend to be only 12-gauge.

[agunforeachhand]

Thanks much.  I appreciate the feedback.

I've noticed lately that some stores are selling a pump shotgun (Mossberg, at least) with a home defense barrel (18'') as well as a longer barrel.  But they tend to be only 12-gauge.

I have noticed that too. Most of the 20's I see with a shorter barrel seem to be youth shotguns.

What purpose are you going to use it for? If defense you could always buy a 20 and have the barrel cut down.

[Jeff]

Why limit yourself?  Just because the 12 kicks harder?  In every "stressful" situation I've been in and used a firearm I have never remembered and kick or noise.  I might feel it in my shoulder or my ears may ring but during the moment is was irrelevant.

Sure, shot placement counts.  But why not hit the target with the biggest and baddest round possible?

If kick is the big deal then load down.  20 gauge ammo is harder to find and more expensive.  16 gauge is nearly impossible to find.  Especially in a "home defense" load.  Both are losers IMHO.

[GrayWolf]

I have noticed that too. Most of the 20's I see with a shorter barrel seem to be youth shotguns.

What purpose are you going to use it for? If defense you could always buy a 20 and have the barrel cut down.

I'm primarily interested in a home defense weapon, but could also use it for grouse hunting as well.  I don't hunt ducks or geese.

[ballardw]

I asked for feedback because I'm looking to get a shotgun here in December.  I'm averse to getting a sore shoulder, so I thought I would consider a 20-gauge (or possibly 16).

Take a trip through the shot gun ammo area at Cabela's or Sportsmans and look at how much 16 gauge is available (not). Unless you aren't going to shoot it much at all or are going to reload the cost and availability would suggest 12 or 20.

My only shotgun purchase was in 16 gauge and mostly because for the Model 97 Winchester it was inexpensive, but I don't shoot it. But I did want to have a couple of rounds availble just in case and was surprised at how bad the ammo situation was for this gauge.

[agunforeachhand]

  20 gauge ammo is harder to find and more expensive.  16 gauge is nearly impossible to find.  Especially in a "home defense" load.  Both are losers IMHO.
[/quote]

Jeff the wally world here in Nampa ALWAYS has 20 and 16 gauge. AND I AM NOT A LOSER

[crj]

I'd go with a 12gauge. A REM 870 or Mossy500. Both are virtually bulletproof. I would choose whichever I can find cheaper.  12's offer variety of ammo, cheap parts including short barrels, slug barrels all that good stuff, knockdown power for geese etc.  As for kick, unless you are one helluva a grouse hunter or have nightly home invasions you arent going to have issues.

Oops! I spoke before reading the article!  Now I'm confused, he sure makes the 20 sound good. 

get both. 

[GrayWolf]

Just curious, is there any use for the .410?

[agunforeachhand]

Just curious, is there any use for the .410?

Home invaders, martians, maybe zombies Neighbors damn dog or cat

[TylerC]

I love the 16ga you can find single 0 or slugs easily.  i find its the best compromise between weight of shotgun and weight of shot on target. but between 20ga and 12ga get both! shotguns are fairly inexpensive i ended up buying a 20ga just to shoot the boxes of it i had lying around. I like the article as well its very right on.

[birddog1989]

I got a CZ O/U .20 gauge at the first of the year and love it.  I was thinking of getting a 12 for more power and better ammo selection.  Those two points meant a lot less to me when I actually handled the guns.  The 20 handles much faster that the 12 and to me that makes all the difference, but that's me.  It is the funnest gun I've ever shot.

[eddymunster]

When and IF wally world ceases to exist for your ammo needs, I would want a 12ga. for increased chances of resupply through barter. 

[HD-DVD]

I'd also go with the 12 gauge for the reasons listed above. Like Jeff says, why limit yourself, Gray. Might as well get an 18" Remington 870 or equivalent that's proven itself as an excellent defensive weapon, and with just a quick barrel change can do double duty in the field. Practice with the lightest cheap stuff you can find then be ready with something more suitable for home defense. (Honestly bird shot ain't bad for that too, I sure wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of it.)

Back in 1976 or so a buddy needed to sell his 870 Wingmaster with three barrels and I bought it mainly to help out. I'm not a hunter and never have been but it was such a blast to play with in the desert I hung on to it all these years. It doesn't get fired that much but it's always been comforting to have it nearby especially when something goes thump in the night. I never found it overpowering and recommend that you think twice before scratching a 12 gauge from your short list. Good luck with what you get!

[GrayWolf]

Thanks everybody.  I at least know that I won't get a 16 or 410 gauge!  If you had to choose between Remington or Mossberg, is there any substantial difference in quality?  Or is it just a matter of personal preference?

[e11charlie]

Thanks everybody.  I at least know that I won't get a 16 or 410 gauge!  If you had to choose between Remington or Mossberg, is there any substantial difference in quality?  Or is it just a matter of personal preference?

Hasnt this question started wars?  I think its personal preference and accessories availability. 

[eddymunster]

Thanks everybody.  I at least know that I won't get a 16 or 410 gauge!  If you had to choose between Remington or Mossberg, is there any substantial difference in quality?  Or is it just a matter of personal preference?

I got a Rem 870 Express last Oct. for $270 at Sportsman's. Side saddle, police fore end, and a 12" LOP stock to finish it out plus plenty of 00 buck and 1oz slugs. All of this cost less than most of the tactical shotguns on the market and it is set up perfect for me.

[HD-DVD]

I don't think you can go wrong with either Remington or Mossberg, they're both very popular for defense - and law enforcement. Just read up on them and choose the one that meets your specs. I prefer the Remington since that's what I have.

[9Shooter]

I've got the Rem 870 Express Magnum in both 12 and 20.  Solid and reliable.  Only problem we've ever seen with it was when a shell was not pushed far enough into the mag tube to catch while loading.  Sprang back out and jammed up between the bolt and carrier until I could unscrew the magazine cap to take the spring out.  I'd consider that operator error though.  Other than that one learning experience they have functioned perfectly.

[GrayWolf]

I haven't kept up with mossberg's models; If you go with the mossberg, make sure you get the model with dual action bars. I've seen three of the single bar models break over time. Remington uses two.

The only thing I don't like about today's crop of remingtons is the plastic trigger housings. You can still get aluminum replacements if you want to beef up the 870's trigger group. I have a couple of 2k forwardish 870s and a late 70s model 870 wingmaster.

Thanks.  Appreciate the tips like those you mentioned.

[NoviceHunter]

I just keep the lower recoil "tactical" buckshot in my 12.