Best places to buy an AR in Boise - or buy online?

[HD-DVD]

I'm starting to look at ARs now that they're showing up again and need to find the best places to shop in the Treasure Valley. Would like to get one by the end of the year so am studying up on them.

Was just over at Cabela's and it was a zoo. Finally got someone to talk to but he didn't know a thing about ARs except "they're black and ugly". Asked if they had a Bushmaster Carbon 15 and he didn't know so asked another guy who said "right there in the showcase". Sure... so I gave up and will have to try them again mid-week.

Then went to Sportsman's Warehouse which was busy too. Did have DPMS in the $800-900 range and some S&W M&Ps which I like. Need to check out Impact Guns, too. Also Alpha Omega, I got my WASR 10 from them at a gun show a few years back.

Or maybe should just buy a complete upper, stripped lower and parts kit? I'm new to all the choices in parts so reading up at AR15.com. Seems like CMMG comes up often as a good choice for the money. I don't want tacticool and don't want optics but do want to get the right parts in the first place. Debating whether to go A2 since I'll use open sights but a flattop with a removabble A3/A4 carrying handle probably makes sense in case I change my mind or my eyes can't handle iron sights later. Sure was a lot easier when Uncle Sam just handed me the M16!  

[Beamncoke]

Off the rack is fine... but you'll end up modifying it later anyway.  I would have to suggest a custom build.  For not a lot more money you can have all the options that  you would like right off the bat.    You can then add specialized uppers to your collection thereby expanding your arsenal for not a lot of money.

[9Shooter]

Your not going to find much better price on an upper than what Jeff sells at sawtac.  With the BoiseShooters discount it's a fantastic deal on a Stag.  Then just get a LPK, a stripped lower, and have at it.  The instructions they have at ar15.com make it pretty easy to do it yourself.  The only tools i ended up using were needlenose pliers, a small hammer, a finish nail punch, and some electrical tape.

[Jeff]

Biggest selection is probably Impact Guns.  Ponderosa Sports probably has a bunch too.  Both should be very knowledgeable.

[Nomad]

 Try Zidaho and KSL classified.......
 In most cases there is only a private sale...........

[popsgunner]

RK Gunsmithing has a new dpms ar15, m4 style for sale, and yes I KNOW ar's, I also have 2 lpk's for sale and a mess of small and other parts. Check us out !

[HD-DVD]

Thanks guys!

Yeah it doesn't look like I'll find what I want off the shelf here in town. Best to go custom to avoid replacing parts later but first must get a handle on choosing the right parts. In a way it's a good thing I'm not ready to buy right now, don't know enough. Spent some time looking at CMMG uppers at their site and sure like their specs. Really like their 16" uppers over 14.5. Would like to make this thing look a little like the one I carried in Nam but not the full 20" barrel.

Just registered at SawTac Website and will look around. Heard a lot of good things about Stag.

[Norton1]

I would have to say that popsgunner does know ARs very well - go check it out as he is easy to deal with and knowledgable.

[ManOnFire]

If I'd buy an AR today, I'd get a RRA lower and LPK here:
http://pkfirearms.com/content/1/20/108/6?page=2
a Daniel defense/CMT upper here:
http://pkfirearms.com/content/1/20/117/9?page=2
and butt stock kit from this guy:
http://ee.ar15.com/ItemView.aspx?iid=21691 they're unmarked and highest quality I've used
send the lower to First national pawn downtown for $10 FFL fee
thats a High quality AR for 800 bucks

[HD-DVD]

Man, thanks for all the information guys! Lots to study up on. The CMMG website really takes some time to figure out but I like the wide selection of uppers there. And Stag looks great too.

I'm thinking it's best to go with Jeff and Sawtac, for a complete Stag lower and probably Stag upper as well. Only thing Stag barrels have a 1/9 twist though probably not a big deal since I've read they are accurate. Or there shouldn't be a problem with a CMMG upper with Stag... Anyway, lots to study up on for now.

[popsgunner]

Thanks Steve N, I am easy to deal with, y'all gotta remember, they are all about the same, same specs, same materials, same same. custom parts are nice but spendy depending on what you need, too much junk on an AR is useless. Reg sights, back up sights, sling, light and a decent trigger. All else is iceing in my book, Stag is good, as are a bunch more, the list of crap is much shorter, Oly, Hesse, Vulcan are the main baddies, I think everyone acknowledges those, the other end are the machined uppers and lowers, nice and very spendy.
Always more to learn, however.

[jordonhurd]

What's the deal with AR barrels? Chrome moly, chrome lined? I don't really understand which is supposed to be the best way to go.

[popsgunner]

My understanding and experience is that chrome lined bbl are great for full auto, long life and not so great accuracy because the chrome lining is not evenly put thru out the bbl and chamber. Can they accurate sure but takes alot, cr-mo bbls are much more accurate and easier to crown and make the chamber more precise. My son in Iraq says all their rifle are chrome lined. Ask the shooters who are winning the top matches and 3 gun events, they use non chrome lined bbls.

[HD-DVD]

Thanks for the good info, popsgunner! Sounds like a chrome moly barrel is the way to go for accuracy. And I've been reading the 1 in 7 twist rate isn't the best for all types of ammo, 1 in 9 might be a better compromise and widens the selection. Also a true 16" barrel over 14.5" plus a mid-length gas system instead of standard carbine length. So many choices.

As for a lower I really like the looks of the Stag and it seems to be made by CMT which also may do Rock River Arms, Noveski (some), Global Tactical, S&W, Wilson Tactical, Daniel Defense and Colt (sometimes).

Right now I'm leaning to the A2 full stock but suppose that I can use the same buffer assembly in both the A2 and M4 telescoping stocks if need be. The A2 stock, flat top upper with carry handle and slightly longer barrel and foregrips will look a little more like an M16.

[egress81]

of you want to shoot a heavier bullet but would still like the option of a lighter bullet you could go with a 1:8 twist rate for the best of both worlds

[High Wall]

What's the deal with AR barrels? Chrome moly, chrome lined? I don't really understand which is supposed to be the best way to go.

It depends on the level of accuracy you are after.  Chrome lined barrels can be capable of sub-MOA accuracy in the 5.56, so you may not be giving up much there.  I have a couple of Colt barrels that can do that, as well as a Bushmaster.  But I'll agree if you need/want better than that, a chrome-lined barrel is not the way to go.  If you want an excellent non-chromed barrel for a reasonable price, check out Lothar Walther.

[agunforeachhand]

Thanks Steve N, I am easy to deal with, y'all gotta remember, they are all about the same, same specs, same materials, same same. custom parts are nice but spendy depending on what you need, too much junk on an AR is useless. Reg sights, back up sights, sling, light and a decent trigger. All else is iceing in my book, Stag is good, as are a bunch more, the list of crap is much shorter, Oly, Hesse, Vulcan are the main baddies, I think everyone acknowledges those, the other end are the machined uppers and lowers, nice and very spendy.
Always more to learn, however.

What is wrong with Olympia's? I thought that they took care of their problems and they really aren't that bad anymore?

[egress81]

What is wrong with Olympia's? I thought that they took care of their problems and they really aren't that bad anymore?

http://www.boiseshooters.com/index.php?topic=6731.0

[agunforeachhand]

http://www.boiseshooters.com/index.php?topic=6731.0

I read that egress thanks. But that seems like only one case. Kind of like the myth about Glock KB's. The Oly plinker I shoot is great. Of course I have never really shot any highend AR's either.

[Michael N]

When was the barrel made ? The best shooting AR I have ever owned had a Olympic Arms 1 in 10 twist super match barrel . The guy I sold it too sent me an e-mail about twice a week for 2 months thanking me for it .

[egress81]

I think it was sometime late 07, My buddy had it put on a build as part of a present to himself after returning from a deployment.

[bourneshooter]

If you want to learn something about AR's, read this links info. READ EVERYTHING ON IT!

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA

[Jeff]

That's a nice doc.  It turns out I prefer 1:9, castle nut not staked, and some others.  I prefer Armalite. 

It's funny though that most everyone seems to like Bushmaster, RRA, and DPMS but they aren't much different than Olympic on the chart.

The Olympics I've used in the past have been just fine.

[HD-DVD]

Great spreadsheet, bourneshooter, thanks for the link!

Still studying here... gotta make my one and only AR the right one for me. Pretty much set on a Stag lower though.

[bourneshooter]

I'll admit that right now my castle nut isn't staked. But It is the MAGPUL ASAP I just installed and haven't got a chance to stake. Why do I want it staked? Cause I don't want it coming loose during a course of fire be it training or the longest 2 seconds of my life.

I prefer to make my AR as deadly as possible so I like the 1 in 7 barrel. Heavier bullets, preferably the 5.56 Hornady TAP 75gr T2 or Black Hills MK 262, are much deadlier than any other round out of the AR platform. Hence my like of the 1 in 7 barrel.

For lowers, most of them are the same - Noveske used Stag lowers at one point. I own a Stag and LMT amongst my collection of lowers. Remember, PARTS ARE NOT PARTS. There is a difference in quality.

By the way, Pat Rogers of EAG tactical recently posted an AAR on lightfighter.net about his Colt 6940 that was at 14,000+ rounds without a non magazine induced malfunction and no cleaning. Just the liberal use of Slip 2000. This is the standard for quality guns in a "combat" or heavy training enviroment.

For the occasional plinking, olympic/rra/dpms/bushy/etc might be okay. I wouldn't rely on them for a gun my life might depend on though.

[BerettaColtFan]

Do lots of research.  Then buy what fits your budget after searching.

Myself, I prefer Noveske, Colts, LMT & BCM for my DI Guns. 

Depends how hard you are going to use it, and what features you want.

If I were considering Piston ARs id look at LWRC, POF and LMT but for me, ive decided only DI for now. 

[bourneshooter]

Do lots of research.  Then buy what fits your budget after searching.

Myself, I prefer Noveske, Colts, LMT & BCM for my DI Guns. 

Depends how hard you are going to use it, and what features you want.

If I were considering Piston ARs id look at LWRC, POF and LMT but for me, ive decided only DI for now. 

With the exception of the POF guns, take his suggestions.

[HD-DVD]

Thanks BCF! Yeah I've researched a lot over the last few days and slowly am getting up to speed. Started out wanting a carbine but making it look like a little M16A2 but now coming around to M4 all the way. Not considering a piston model, DI will be fine. Don't know why I fell so far out of the AR loop but after getting an AK realized there was a huge hole in my gun collection that needed filled.

Leaning more to the 1 in 9 twist barrel since it should give me more flexibility in bullet weight - and Jeff likes it! But of course 1 in 7 is milspec so has its advantages too.


Edit;

Thanks for that info, bourneshooter!

[Jeff]

I've found that my 1:7 just isn't accurate with 55gr ammo.  And I think it's a good idea to have a weapon that will shoot that and be reasonably accurate.  The Armalite 1:9 mid length barrels I've used in the past have been the best bang for the buck.  I have used WOA and some other higher end barrels (not Noveske) and they just haven't measured up (price/performance) to the Armalite.  This isn't a sales pitch but I do have one of these barrels left.  I don't mind keeping it but I've been moving back to the carbine length because the parts are easier to get.

IMO, if you are going to war then get the best.  If not, then get the best you can afford.  You can always upgrade the "lesser" parts later.  Learn on a cheaper brand/build and replace the barrel/bolt/carrier or whatever as either it wears out or you start pushing it harder.

In other words, most of us will never notice the difference between a decent AR and a top end AR.  Don't do it just because you want to run what the big dogs run. 

[HD-DVD]

Hey thanks again, Jeff, great info as usual! And I appreciate everyone's comments, they sure help an old guy get back in the swing of things. That Armalite barrel sounds real good but I'm just not up to speed enough yet to make a decision on an upper. At this time I feel pretty good building a lower, probably Stag and testing it out with my buddy's Bushy upper.

As far as the upper I'll probably go for a complete upper that's been factory tested. Of course problem is getting everything you want - which right now is a 16" government profile barrel but with 1:9 twist and a mid-length gas system. Probably chrome lined for ease of cleaning even though you give up a skosh accuracy. I really want it to fire lighter rounds well since they're cheaper and most of my shooting will be at paper targets. Honestly this thing likely will be a safe queen most of the time but I want it to work right if necessary. For that reason I'd probably be smart to just go with 14.5" and widen the selection, even go 1:7 to have a true milspec M4 except semi only. And of course A3 removeable carry handle/sight (grrrhh - why don't they call it A4, the A3 doesn't have a removeable handle, it's just a full auto M16A2.) A Stag upper would give me 1:9 but going with Stag for both upper and lower I have to consider just buying a complete Stag to get a better warranty. Man this ain't easy!

Funny, I started out wanting something like the rifle I carried in 1968 but have grudgingly moved forward to the current military carbine which makes more sense for my requirements today. I'm basically a handgun guy with only a few rifles but see the need for a better rifle. For now I do have an AK but it needs a made in USA carbine sitting next to it!

[HD-DVD]

Well I'd better get off the pot and do something about a stripped lower.

Is it easy to to buy one in town or better to go online and have it sent to a FFL? Jeff, I looked at your Sawtac site but I didn't see any lowers for sale. Or did I miss them somehow? I want to get something good but being a newbie don't want to step on any toes since there are quite a few dealers and site sponsers here. So far one of the most attractive deals I've seen is Impact Guns has a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Stripped Lower for $129.99. Guess I'd better check on that, it'd be nice to build on a logo like that. Seems you order online then pick up in the store, need to look into that.

[Jeff]

I don't sell lowers.  Impact has a bunch.  You're better off getting one local I think.

Impacts web site sucks.  I think you'd better off just going in and talking to someone. 

Really, most AR lowers are pretty much the same unless you get a billet version.  I've built on Olympic, Bushmaster, DPMS, and RRA.  All were decent and the rifles came out fine.  I even built one on an old American Spirit Arms lower.  Pretty much all the accuracy is in the upper.

[Beamncoke]

Building a rifle to your specific needs is fun and expensive.  I use AR15builder.com quite a bit to try new stuff.  They let you create a virtual build and then save your model for later.  Kind of cool and saves some money.  Check it out.

[Keebsley]

You're better off buying local.  You'll get it cheaper because you don't have to pay FFL.  Go down to Impact and talk to the guys there and go from there.  Simple and painless.

[HD-DVD]

Hey thanks guys for all the super quick replies!

I called Impact and they had a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Stripped Lower in stock so dropped everything and raced over there. They do price match their website so it was $129.99 plus $7.80 sales tax, not a bad deal at all. I love the deep black anodizing and S&W logo. Now to get a top notch parts kit and M4 stock with the H or H2 buffer.

Don't know what the heck I'm doing but guess I'll get it together! 

[Michael N]

PM sent with some stuff you may be interested in .

[Keebsley]

Hey thanks guys for all the super quick replies!

I called Impact and they had a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Stripped Lower in stock so dropped everything and raced over there. They do price match their website so it was $129.99 plus $7.80 sales tax, not a bad deal at all. I love the deep black anodizing and S&W logo. Now to get a top notch parts kit and M4 stock with the H or H2 buffer.

Don't know what the heck I'm doing but guess I'll get it together! 

Good choice.  I'm building up an AR for a friend of mine right now.  Going a different route but mission drives the gear.  To each their own.  GOod luck and if you have any questions, just ask and we're here for ya.

[agunforeachhand]

Good choice.  I'm building up an AR for a friend of mine right now.  Going a different route but mission drives the gear.  To each their own.  GOod luck and if you have any questions, just ask and we're here for ya.

There is a M&P on zidaho for $900 just in case you guys missed it. Happy shooting. Stay safe.

Here is the link. Not sure if this is ok to do or not. Let me know if it isn't

http://secure.adpay.com/clicknbuy.aspx?p=1080&itemid=3466964&networkview=False&catid=OO46e&pcatid=OO46&procid=441ed989-ef71-4113-be1c-06f1f3708405

[HD-DVD]

Thanks again guys! Guess now I'll be looking at a CMT/Stag LPK and a good telestock. I understand S&W uses (or used) CMT parts so I might as well try to make the lower look as much as possible as the M&P-15. Then borrow my buddy's Bushmaster upper to test it out.

Got a granddaughter just starting at BSU this week which is draining our retirement funds so will have to save up a couple months for a Stag upper most likely.


That M&P on zidaho for $900 looks like a good deal. Grrrh, I'll probably end up with about the same in this clone. 

[Jeff]

I've got some DPMS and RRA LPK's and a RRA Two Stage trigger.  And some Armalite Carbine uppers. 

[HD-DVD]

Thanks Jeff, I'll definitely need to talk to you when I'm ready for an upper. Probably will be ready in two months. At one time I heard you sometimes have Stag but nothing wrong with ArmaLite too!

I'm getting the LPK and stock from Michael N since he ended up with a set he doesn't need anymore.

[HD-DVD]

Thought I'd throw up a picture of the S&W lower... not much now but give it a couple months. 

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[HD-DVD]

Finally got around to taking pictures of the complete lower so posting a couple here...
It turned out great, the lpk and stock worked great, Michael. Thanks again!

Slow but sure.  
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[Kcboats]

 

[Nomad]

 Jeff's uppers are good shooters got one the other day an Armalite.......Thanks....

[HD-DVD]

Jeff's uppers are good shooters got one the other day an Armalite.......Thanks....

Yeah, and I think he has one in stock right now!  


BTW, the little American Flags stuck on the stock pictured above are Hallmark and say "Made In USA". Gotta make sure everything that goes in this rifle is US! 

[Jeff]

Nope.  All out.  But more on order.

[HD-DVD]

Roger that! I can wait...

[HD-DVD]

Jeff's uppers are good shooters got one the other day an Armalite.......Thanks....

BTW, I've studied a lot over the last few weeks and think Jeff's ArmaLite carbine upper is about the best you can get. The link to the AR-15 spreadsheet bourneshooter gave a while back was packed with information and I finally understand it. The author has set it up so the best rifles are to the left and lesser models are to the right. He rightfully puts a lot of emphasis on the best barrel steel and almost all have a 1:7" twist. It's hard to get the best barrel steel in a 1:9" twist - the only manufacturer to do it is ArmaLite.

Other pluses of the ArmaLite upper are big: Shot Peened Bolt, Black Extractor Spring Insert, Properly Staked Gas Key, Chrome Chamber & Bore, M4 Feedramps, Parkerizing under the FSB.

Negatives are: A2 FSB, Straight Pins at FSB, Single Handguard Heat Shields, AR-15 Bolt Carrier Style but none of these are deal breakers.

Anyway, since I want the 1:9 twist ArmaLite is the way to go.

Here's the link to that spreadsheet again:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA

Edit: a companion thread to the spreadsheet:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

[Jeff]

If you find you need a taller FSB you can just use the taller post that Bushmaster sells.  $6 is a cheap fix.  If you need it.

The single heat shields are because it uses the CAR hand guards.  Personally, I do not like the fat oval M4 hand guards so this is a plus IMO.

Unless you are going to go full auto you don't need the M16 carrier.  But they are available. 

[HD-DVD]

Yeah, I don't see those things as a problem, doubt that I'll bother with the handguards and only would consider the M16 Bolt Carrier if there was an extraction/ejection problem like pictured in that AR-15 Ejection Diagram thread you posted the other day, Jeff.

As far as I'm concerned the ArmaLite can move way more to the left on the "Chart" if you want 1:9".

If the front site post isn't tall enough I'll get that Bushmaster part. I'm pasting in a link to it just in case. No doubt I'll misplace the link later so here is a good place for safe keeping and if anyone else may need it.

http://www.bushmaster.com/products.asp?cat=21
It's the fifth item: A2 Front Sight Post for Flat-Top Colts

[HD-DVD]

Inching closer to having a complete AR-15, bought a carry handle today that Michael N. didn't need anymore. Looks good, thanks Mike!

Edit:
And some magazines from Jeff at the Gun Show on Sunday.

[HD-DVD]

Well hopefully things are coming together on my first AR. Jeff should be getting some uppers in this week and I'm looking at his M15A4CB Mid-Length Carbine Upper.

It will require ArmaLite's gas block rail mounted A2 style front sight which I believe looks like the following picture. Posting it here to be sure I'm on the same page as Jeff.  

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Ah here's ArmaLite's page on that sight: http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=E20151&ReturnUrl=Categories2.aspx?Category=a14c8168-f1cf-4f11-8859-bafe17a66e1e

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[HD-DVD]

Jeff just got in a few ArmaLite uppers this week so I bought one of his U15A4CB middies. Haven't fired it on my lower yet as I'm waiting on a front sight - it's the model that has a railed gas block instead of the A2 sight. (Could just sight down the flat rail but why waste ammo when I don't have enough already! Besides, it was test fired at the factory and I can see multiple brass streaks on both feed ramps.)

As I get range time with the midlength upper I hope to write a decent review but first impressions show excellent quality for the money. "Bang for the buck" is the phrase that quickly comes to mind when inspecting ArmaLite quality. If you have any experience with fine firearms just field stripping this upper will convince you it's ready out of the box to defend you and your family plus all the other tasks you may ask of it.

The first thing you notice picking it up is this thing is tough as nails. Sure, it weighs a little more than a milspec M4 upper but you get a full 16" barrel instead of 14.5 and the midlength gas system instead of the harsher carbine version. You don't get a bayonet lug or the M203 cutout but honestly, who's likely to need them? (Jeff does have the M4 LE version that is milspec if that's what you need.) Neither has the military 1:7" rifling twist, both are 1:9" which is suited for 69 grain bullets and below but ArmaLites do well with heavier bullets too. (There are reports that their barrels are closer to 1:8 than 1:9.)

Looking at the chamber area, the barrel extension and receiver have M4 feed ramps and they're cut as well as those in a Colt. On another forum I recently saw pictures of M4 feed ramps in a highly touted Bravo Company upper and they weren't aligned well between the barrel and receiver. You see that often because it's hard to get the barrel torqued down properly and allow for the gas tube and also get the feed ramps aligned. But in a quality upper that all should happen and it does in ArmaLite. I must say I'm impressed, especially at this price.

Another thing you hear about is the quality of the carrier key staking and ArmaLite does this right too. Enough metal is pressed over the hex screws that they aren't going anywhere. No need to restake this one like many other brands. The deep black bolt carrier group looks tough and it is. You don't read much about ArmaLites breaking bolts and I don't think these will either.

Finally, the finish is deep black and looks good on the S&W lower. It's a flatter black while the S&W has more sheen but with a little oil smudging you don't care. One interesting thing, the ArmaLite upper and S&W lower do not list the caliber. (It's not even stamped on the barrel hidden under the handguards. And it seems S&W doesn't bother with caliber on stripped lowers, at least the one I got.) Also ArmaLite has named their AR-15s "M-15" while S&W calls theirs "M&P-15". Nice match.

Oops, gotta stop, this is sounding like a review and I don't even have the rounds in... Anyway, to say I'm pleased is an understatement. ArmaLite uppers ooze quality and I expect it to show up at the range. It doesn't hurt that Jeff has a great price on these uppers either!

Edit: added pictures and corrected a mistake about barrel markings

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[HD-DVD]

I corrected the above about the numbering stamped on the barrel under the handguards, was going with what I'd read. When I actually got around to pulling off the handguards the only marking on the barrel is 05/09. ArmaLite customer support says that's just a date code, of course May 2009. The barrel is a Wilson and even though not marked, it is a NATO 5.56 chamber, chrome lined 4150 CMV, and 1:9 RH twist. I believe the LE uppers are marked for caliber and twist but don't know for sure.

Interesting that I managed to piece together a rifle with no caliber marking. In fact it's the first firearm I can remember handling that didn't have caliber stamped somewhere. Anyway, not a problem, just wanted to update with what ArmaLite said today.

[HD-DVD]

Jeff got in the ArmaLite gas block sight so my AR is now complete - and well ahead of schedule. Yesterday Amazon.com delivered a cheap Leapers/UTG riser mount so I can play with an old Marlin scope, too. And for a finishing touch, got the USGI sling off eBay - looked around town a little but didn't find one - which is ok since I need to give some thought to another sling.

I want to thank everyone here for all the help bringing this rifle together, I really appreciate it. And special thanks to Jeff and Michael N for answering many questions and having great prices on most of the parts! Also it was a pleasant surprise to get this done in a month instead of being backordered forever. Really enjoyed this project and am happy with the finished rifle. The bottom line was about $900, a good price for parts of this quality. Thanks again guys!

Here's the parts list:
Smith&Wesson Model M&P-15 Stripped Lower (Impact Guns)
Del-Ton Lower Parts Kit (Michael N)
Del-Ton 6-position Buttstock (Michael N)
Bushmaster Carry Handle (Michael N)
ArmaLite M-15A4CB MidLength Upper Receiver (Jeff/Sawtac)
ArmaLite Gas Block Sight (Jeff/Sawtac)
USGI M16 Sling (eBay)
USGI Magazines (Jeff/Sawtac)
Leapers/UTG 1" Riser Mount (Amazon)
Marlin Model 700A Scope (from my 336C)

Below are a few pictures. Time to go shootin'!

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[Michael N]

Looks good ! Glad I could be of help .

[HD-DVD]

Yeah I like her! Sure, boring and basic and a little retro looking - but just what I wanted. R. Lee Ermey yells at us pukes to give our rifles a girl's name so I'll call her plain Mary Jane. Plain can be beautiful though!

[popsgunner]

Looks good, as long as YOU can shoot her straight you've got a winner. I also whip a killer trigger job on AR's for 85.00, 75.00 for Boise Shooters, a nice clean even breaking 4+/- pounds. Most stock triggers are a crappy 7 lbs. Justa thought.

[HD-DVD]

Thanks, popsgunner! I hope to get her out this weekend and see what she'll do. Better than I can, I'm sure.

Good to know about your trigger job, too. I have very lightly polished the hammer/trigger mating surfaces which has eliminated most of the creep but it's still definitely a military style pull, probably 7 pounds. Heck my WASR 10 came out of the box better than that! 

[popsgunner]

No worries, let us know how "PMJ" shoots.

[HD-DVD]

"PMJ"! Yep, that's her...

[ecocks]

Hmmm, I have a S&W OR model on my wish list but a config like this would leave plenty of room for the optics at the same price.

Good information.

[HD-DVD]

I should drop in the specs I have on this build if that helps, ecocks.

Based on the US Military M4 Carbine, A4 Picatinny railed flat top; civilian legal semi-automatic only
Caliber: 5.56mm NATO/.223 Remington
Upper and Lower Receivers: Forged 7075 T6 construction; S&W M&P-15 lower/complete ArmaLite U15A4CB upper
Barrel Length: 16" + 1.5” threaded A2 flash hider (1/2x28)
Barrel Diameter: 0.750” medium contour, without M203 step down or bayonet lug
Barrel: Milspec MIL-B-11595-E 4150 CMV (Chrome Moly Vanadium) steel, made by Wilson Arms of Branford, CT
Chrome Lined Chamber & Bore (double lapped), barrel rifling twist: RH 1:9”
Feed ramps: M4 (extended on both the barrel extension and upper receiver)
Front Sight Base: Gas Block with Picatinny Rail for mounting a front sight (easily removed if using optics)
Upper Receiver: Forged Flattop with Picatinny Rail & Laser Engraved Rail Numbering (2 through 12)
Barrel and Bolt HPT/MPI batch tested (not individually)
Shot peened bolt with patented locking lugs that increase strength; chrome lined
Black extractor insert plus Crane O-ring
Modified M16 Bolt Carrier, chrome lined, relieved to not function with M16 auto sear, firing pin remains shrouded
Properly staked Carrier/Gas key
Gas system and handguards: MidLength
Trigger: Single Stage Military, Approximately 7 lbs. Trigger pull is within military specs and clean, with little creep
Stock: Black 6-position telescoping; Del-Ton commercial threaded receiver extension; carbine buffer
Finish: Black: Hard Anodized Aluminum, Manganese Phosphated Steel (Parkerized)
Accuracy: 1.5-2" MOA with iron sights, possibly better with a scope
Length: 36.6" (stock extended); 32.7" (stock collapsed)
Weight (unloaded): 7 lbs (without sights), 7.5 lbs (with A4 carry handle and front sight) (with full magazine, add 1 lb)
Capacity: 30 + 1 rounds
Bushmaster A4 Carry Handle/Rear sight
ArmaLite E20151 A2 style front sight mounted on railed gas block
USGI black sling
USGI magazines
ArmaLite Owner's Manual

[HD-DVD]

Hmmm, I have a S&W OR model on my wish list but a config like this would leave plenty of room for the optics at the same price.

Good information.

Honestly I hadn't heard of S&W's new M&P15OR until you mentioned it. After looking at the specs and pictures, it is very similar to "PMJ" above. The main differences I can find is the barrel, the OR uses 4140 Steel, has the carbine length gas system and has an M203 cutout while ArmaLite's Wilson barrel uses true milspec steel and medium contour with no cutout and is a middy. If I had used a milspec stock they'd be even closer to the same...

Anyway, I think Jeff has another ArmaLite midlength in stock.

[calidarkman619]

Rk gunsmith has a bunch of ar stuff for sale. He will help you figure out what to get too. I bought my lower from him and some other parts too.  He is a great guy. He won't try to get you to buy something you don't want or need.  He's got lots of ar stuff!!! Lots!!

[HD-DVD]

I agree, calidarkman619!


Dropping in a picture of a couple of old vets...
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[popsgunner]

All you need is a pump 12 gauge, HD and your set. Thanks BTW, we aim to please. Nice set up.

[HD-DVD]

Actually do have another old vet that fits the bill, a 35 year old Remington 870 Wingmaster with 3 barrels. 

[mrkimberfan]

At the risk of repeating calidarkman619...RK Gunsmithing has (or can get) anything that you need for an AR.  Then of course my own personal soapbox...I really think that we as local shooters need to support our local gunshops.  I am not talking about the big box stores either.  I'm talking about the single proprietor members of our community that are service and sport oriented.  If you have ever purchased anything from one of the box stores and had a problem with it, you will know what I mean...that dumb look says it all...which widget is doing what??? Uh...we'll have to send that back.  Let's keep our friends and LOCAL businesses IN business.

[HD-DVD]

Well said MKF and I couldn't agree more.

When I started this project a couple months ago I didn't know where to go or who to buy from but as I began learning I found that you can do very well shopping in the Treasure Valley so bought everything here except for two small parts I couldn't find in town, an $11 GI sling and $12 riser. No doubt there were solutions locally for those two as well, I just didn't find them.

One thing - I was very impressed when buying a used pistol from Cliffs a couple years ago, when I noticed something that bothered me he took it in the back and test fired it for me to be sure it was ok. Try getting that kind of service from Cabelas. And continuing with Cabelas, they gave me the worst AR information I got from anyone, anywhere. (No doubt there are good people there but the two I talked to were not knowledgeable yet went ahead and gave ridiculous advice.)

Anyway, we all need to support the little guys locally and I definitely need to get over to Nampa to check out RK Gunsmithing - keep hearing great things about them!

Edit: adding a later picture with a chopped carry handle...
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[mrkimberfan]

Once you go RK...you'll never go back!!!  lol  Robert is a great guy.  And, for that matter...so is Mary.

[jordonhurd]

Another vote for RK. He finished mine about a week ago, and it's pretty much bad ass! When I get another one, RK is where I am going.

[HD-DVD]

Thought I'd drop in a picture of Plain Jane with an A2 stock. She cleans up real good!

Also a couple posts above I added a picture of what she looks like with a chopped carry handle...

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[rixret]

Buy Independent, Local Guys; RK, SawTac, Cliffs. Just to name a few. Support your local independent and often.

[HD-DVD]

Buy Independent, Local Guys; RK, SawTac, Cliffs. Just to name a few. Support your local independent and often.

I agree, other than a sling, the CCH and a cheap mount this rifle was assembled from components purchased from site sponsors or individuals here. Definitely the way to go.

[HD-DVD]

Thought it was a good time for an update on this build because it’s been right at one year since I bought the S&W M&P-15 stripped lower to begin. By chance that was 8/25/2009 just hours before Ted Kennedy died. Ironic with his long career and much antigun legislation to have by chance bought a firearm that very day which happened to be manufactured in his home state!

Anyway, the rifle turned out great and I sure learned a lot. Looking at my first posts I was a real noob but have learned a lot in a year. Thanks to everyone for all your help!

Not a lot has been changed since it was completed 11 months ago but there have been a couple nice upgrades - mainly a Daniel Defense M16 BCG and a BCM milspec receiver extension/M4 stock/H buffer. Of course that means I now have spares and we all know you never really have spares because they’re just the start of another build!

Went out a week ago with my son-in-law and we put 200 rounds down range with no issues. The rifle’s up to maybe 800 rounds now and not a single malfunction with any ammo I’ve tried including cheap Tula/Herter’s steel case. I know that’s not a lot of rounds for many of you but enough that I feel confident in the rifle.

I kind expected short stroking with Tula with the heavier carrier/buffer/stronger action spring but no problem at all. No malfunctions before or after. I also removed the O-ring from the extractor and again no problems so left it off.

Here are some new pictures of Plain Mary Jane…













ETA: Links to ArmaLite, S&W builds
http://www.boiseshooters.com/index.php/topic,10636.0.html
http://www.boiseshooters.com/index.php/topic,11614.msg72971.html#new

[agunforeachhand]

Looks sweet.