Topic: Bugging out / buggin in some things to consider.

[NGO]

Found this link on Survival Blog.com
http://www.frfrogspad.com/disastr.htm

some really good stuff and confirmation of some of the things I have considered in making my decision to bug out.

I have always had plans to bug out since I have a place to go. But even that has some risk in getting there. Some place in western MT, about 8 hr drive through the mountains.

Read it and think about what would happen to you even if you have supplies. Once nice thing is we don't have an inner city mob , but we do have a lot of transplants from liberal cities and states that would be a problem. I think the biggest problem living here and bugging in for any long term is water. Even with a well at some point the generator runs out of gas and then it becomes a well bucket and that takes time when you have a deep well. ( this is a big factor in me deciding to bug out since our well is 600+ ft down.) I wish I had the money for a solar or a wind generator .

And then it becomes food , how long can you survive and compete for what food is available in the Vally. None of us has a large farm and herds, (that I know of) so even if you have a case or two of MRE's anything over a few weeks is serious.

[Nomad]

 What food would you need, think long term.
 Water springs is a topic in it self..What did the Indian tribes do
before we screwed things up, may have some idea as to what
to do long term.. Just a thought... 

[NGO]

To store long term...

Wheat berries, hard winter is high in protien,

100% pure honey,

Powdered milk,

salt



Those four items will keep you going for a long time and many things can be done with it.

You can even do with out meat due to the high protien levels in wheat and how you can prepare it to yield even high concentrate of protiens.

Of course it would be better to suppliment with a vegtable garden and with hunting/fishing.

Indians did many differnt things depending upon what part of the country you are in.
It would be hard to do what they did, because we don't live in the same world they did. If you could get away from the crowds then maybe you could but it would impossiable to live like they did when you have neigborhs.

Where we lived in AZ we were about 5 miles from the nearest other familes. and even then our food was supplimented with monthly government handouts. ( Not to different than the type of food that use to be in C-rations)


My plans for long term SHTF would to get to my brothers ranch, he is a doctor and I have my skills to help ensure our two familes survive.

Locally I would recommend learning how to grow a garden, practicing the skill is most important. Learning to track animals, getting food in ways other than a rifle.

We were talking the other night at the pizza joint and didn't get into it to much but,

Turn you breaker off for the night, then a day then a week. How do you make do.

How about turn off the water supply.

These sound like ajoke, but until you do it you are only blowing hot air.

When we lived on the res.  and got into a real house and were first hooked up to running water and electricaity it would still go out every once in awhile

Practice these things and see what you have to do if TSHTF and you will be better prepared IF the time comes.

[Idaho_Gun_Nut]

This is why I'll bug in.

http://www.arizonashooting.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36777

[NGO]

That would a good reason to not live in a city with 3 Million people and one road out.

Also a good reason to not wait until the last moment when everyone is told to leave.


Always have plenty of sick leave, personal holiday time saved up and ready to use at a moments notice.

And have the good sense to send you family ahead even sooner, so that if it get bad all you have to worry about is you.

One man with a back pack can make 10 to 20 miles a day.  I can be to my bug our location on foot within a month maybe two in the winter.



Plus if you have put all your eggs in the bugging in basket what happens if the SHTF right here in the Treasure Valley? What if this place becomes inhabitable?

This is another reason to have a BOL ready.

[NGO]

Kill-9 brought up in another thread that he would probally end up living in the woods up north if SHTF and he couldn't stay here. I'm sure a lot of people would doing that.

That is why you then go find the place you would Bug Out and hide a cache in the woods. It would take some work but to bury a sealed container with camping equipment, case of MRE's and fire starting equipment and some ammo and clothing would be a good idea.

You wouldn't be able to move quickly if you tried to take it all with you on the day TSHTF. You would just be a bounty full slow moving target of opprotunity if you had everything you would like to have in a backpack.

I always figured if we had to walk out it would be with little more than camelbacks and weapons.

(Yes we already have stuff hidden to get us to MT once under way. About 20 miles away from the house before we would all get real backpacks and supplies for a long term hiking trip to MT. The biggest problem is shoes for the kids. So we just always have them with us, in the back of the Suburban when we go to town, as the kids like to wear sandals to Wally World and such.)

Bugging out should be just enough to get you were you have more stuff ready for a longer term existence.
For us it was about 200 dollars at yardsales for a second hand set of equipment for a cache. Nothing fancy because it could be found and stolen and it doesn't need to be high quality because it just needs to get us to our final location. So if it last 60 days of use it would be fine.

[JollyRoger]

Good thread! 

[Idaho_Gun_Nut]

Kill-9 brought up in another thread that he would probally end up living in the woods up north if SHTF and he couldn't stay here. I'm sure a lot of people would doing that.

That is why you then go find the place you would Bug Out and hide a cache in the woods. It would take some work but to bury a sealed container with camping equipment, case of MRE's and fire starting equipment and some ammo and clothing would be a good idea.

You wouldn't be able to move quickly if you tried to take it all with you on the day TSHTF. You would just be a bounty full slow moving target of opprotunity if you had everything you would like to have in a backpack.

I always figured if we had to walk out it would be with little more than camelbacks and weapons.

(Yes we already have stuff hidden to get us to MT once under way. About 20 miles away from the house before we would all get real backpacks and supplies for a long term hiking trip to MT. The biggest problem is shoes for the kids. So we just always have them with us, in the back of the Suburban when we go to town, as the kids like to wear sandals to Wally World and such.)

Bugging out should be just enough to get you were you have more stuff ready for a longer term existence.
For us it was about 200 dollars at yardsales for a second hand set of equipment for a cache. Nothing fancy because it could be found and stolen and it doesn't need to be high quality because it just needs to get us to our final location. So if it last 60 days of use it would be fine.

Good points but there's always the "what if" factor?  What if your gear isn't there when you need it.  Now your forced to scrounge replacement gear to make that trek to MT.  As a side note... don't you guys think everyone else is going to be doing the same thing.. heading for the hills?  Personally I want to be going in the opposite direction from the masses.  Me if I had to do it, I would head south to the Snake River with a boat in tow and camp out along the shore either down by Swan Falls or someplace along there where people are not going to be going.  I can fish and hunt and if I need to move quickly I'll just do it in the river with my boat and avoid the highways altogether. 

[NGO]

Yeah, their is always risk involved. We have had stuff buried for about 10 months now, No one has found it yet, it is better camouflage since the bushes we planted have grow a little more this year around it.

As far as direction to head... I suspect everywhere there is going to be crowed, even the river. Have you seen the river on a nice summer day, we found out that camping sites fill up fast along the river one Friday this past summer, ended up camping near Silver city .

A big part of bugging out is to have plans and back up plans. Plan A, B , C...  plan C being worse case which is also the riskest and most hazardous and greatest risk.

Plan A involves driving, (which is what we are doing this week since we are going on vacation to next week.) If we can see the hand writing on the wall I send the family ahead of time, with me following later on. (This is what we did during Y2K family was in MT three weeks ahead of time and I stayed at work in DC, to follow sometime later if it did fall apart.)

Plan B is we have our primary hiking equipment and access to horses and ride to MT, with pack horse.

Plan C/D is walking out with our primary equipment. (Our cache is back up to this stuff).Hiking 20 miles to buried cache is plan D, cause if all else is lost we would then have 250 miles to hike to BOL.

Walking is not the first choice, but one we practice as much as possible. Wife and kids walk everyday, carring weapons and will soon start to carry camelbacks and soon after w/weights.  I want everyone walking 5 miles a with about 20 lbs backpacks on. This is good health and good practice. My goal is to carry a  80 lbs backpack 20 miles in one day. I might be fat but my legs are in great shape. ( I did 16 miles with a 40 lb pack this summer ) No problems with blood pressure and stuff like that.

Plan D would be bugging in. We have limited $ resources and eventually I would like to have solar power and independent power for the well and animals and stuff like that. BUT that would take all our $ right now. And I don't see that as the best longterm solution to a SHTF situation. A big part of TEOTWAWKI is security once you are set up. Bugging in in the city is would very difficult if you don't have a like minded neighborhood to secure the subdivision. And then you have food and water that needs to be resupplied on a continuing bases. Maybe some of you have that worked out, I don't have the $ to do that. And I am exposed in the country, great until the zombie hoards show up.

[Idaho_Gun_Nut]

What did you use for your cache container?

[Farlo]

I don't imagine it will matter much which direction you go or mode of transportation you have.  The forests and deserts around here are going to look like Unit 39 on the opening day of general deer season except no one will be wearing blaze orange.  Personal security will be the primary concern.

[Idaho_Gun_Nut]

I don't imagine it will matter much which direction you go or mode of transportation you have.  The forests and deserts around here are going to look like Unit 39 on the opening day of general deer season except no one will be wearing blaze orange.  Personal security will be the primary concern.

That's where suppressive firepower and interlocking fields of fire come into play!

[NGO]

Walmart heavy duty cargo container sold in the auto department section. You can stand on them. They are small but you we used four of them for a family of five.
We put two in each hole, one on top of the other (six inches of dirt and rocks between them so if one is found they run in to rock and stop digging. Ammo and spare pistol first aid kit is in the bottom one, Food and fire equipment is in the other bottom box.  Spare clothing and backpacks are and a couple MRE's are in the top two boxes.)

Once loaded put a container with some type of desiccant in it. And liberally silicone seal it shut.

I didn't want to try and dig a hole big enough for fifty gal drums and this way we hopefully only lose a small part of the cache if it is found.

We covered the hole with rocks and dirt and planted some small bushes around the location to help disguise it. Also a couple large rocks to, made it look natural as possible. might take me a hour to dig it all up. I put large flat rocks on top just below the surface to try to keep it dry so that if the ground is frozen I'm not digging through 8"'s of frozen dirt.

As I said this is secondary equipment we found most all of it a yard sales, not pretty or the  best, just good enough to hold things and keep us from having nothing.

Out primary equipment is newer, lighter, and doesn't require spray painting to tone it down.

[NGO]

That's where suppressive firepower and interlocking fields of fire come into play!

For that you need people. That have practice together.  Go rabbit hunting in the sage brush country around here. It is a great way to teach field of fire discipline. Something even a 8 year old can learn. I do this with my kids and they understand how important it is too prevent shooting each other.

Bird hunting when flushing in a row is also good for this. Just did this last week with the kids.

Field of fire requires training and trust to work.

[Idaho_Gun_Nut]

For that you need people. That have practice together.  Go rabbit hunting in the sage brush country around here. It is a great way to teach field of fire discipline. Something even a 8 year old can learn. I do this with my kids and they understand how important it is too prevent shooting each other.

Bird hunting when flushing in a row is also good for this. Just did this last week with the kids.

Field of fire requires training and trust to work.

That and people you can depend on.

[NGO]

So I shouldn't go hunting with VP Cheney next week, huh?

[Idaho_Gun_Nut]

So I shouldn't go hunting with VP Cheney next week, huh?

Probably not a wise decision... LOL

[Michael N]

I keep a lot of ammo on hand and have a map to all the Mormons in my neighborhood , what with all of them having a 2 year supply of food on hand and all .

Hell I feel better already just knowing that I have a plan 

[Nomad]

 Planning on a long term stay.. Study what the Indians did you may have a chance.
Leaving town store your needs on a planned trip. 10 to 15 miles apart for refreshing
stops. Many good dry goods one could take.
 As for gas well a horses tank has less need and they are all over the country..
Stealing a horse and leaving town.. Priceless., by the way they can carry a couple
of hundred pounds easy just a thought..