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Author Topic: .243 for long range  (Read 923 times)

Offline egress81

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.243 for long range
« on: July 03, 2009, 11:10:42 PM »
I have an old Ruger M77 bull barrelled .243 that i have been thinking about using to get into the long range game.

Is this caliber worth using ? Or do i need to step up to a .308 to be able to use a higher B.C. bullet to be MOA accurate out to 600+ yards.

I have no problem getting 1/2" to 3/4" groups with the gun as is, i am just wondering if the caliber is worth using.   
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Offline Nomad

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2009, 11:53:48 PM »
 Lots of good 6mm bullets, should work for you.
Some folks use a 223 for 1000yd shoots, and hope the wind isn't blowing......
When you loose the barrel go to say a 6.5 08
7mm08 or maybe a 308 lots of choices.........
 Hope to see you at the LRTR July 31 set up match August 1,09....
 
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Michael N

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2009, 08:45:06 AM »
Depends on what the twist is on the barrel ? If its 1 in 9 or better you have a multitude of good bullets you can use .
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Offline zona5101

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2009, 05:33:08 PM »
Quote from: Nomad on July 03, 2009, 11:53:48 PM
Lots of good 6mm bullets, should work for you.
Some folks use a 223 for 1000yd shoots, and hope the wind isn't blowing......
When you loose the barrel go to say a 6.5 08
7mm08 or maybe a 308 lots of choices.........
 Hope to see you at the LRTR July 31 set up match August 1,09....
 
FWIW, Past LRTR matchs have had a min cal of .30
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Offline egress81

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2009, 05:41:26 PM »
I think the twist is 1/10 so I limited on bullet weight.

 
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Offline egress81

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2009, 08:40:12 PM »
Jeff mentioned there was a guy, george something or other who was shooting a .243 at long range and winning.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2009, 08:46:36 PM »
George from GAP.  Not sure he's still shooting it.  ;)
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Offline egress81

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2009, 08:48:49 PM »
Found it thanks Jeff!

here is a link i gound with blurb about it at the bottom

http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html
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Offline Nomad

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2009, 10:42:32 PM »
 My son used a stock 223 Rem shooting a 20in barrel at 750yds
He was shooting a 1/9 twist AR with 69gr bullets..........Having fun and
learning is the name of the game.........
 One match I used a iron sighted M1A to 840 yds 26 clicks of elevation
shooting a 168gr bullet....
 So come out bring what you have and have fun and learn............
 The smell of gun powder Priceless........Ringing the steel....enjoyable......
 Watching it fly apart.........Steelhead and Edge.........a blast......
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Offline luckypunk

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2009, 10:57:22 PM »
Quote from: Nomad on July 05, 2009, 10:42:32 PM

The smell of gunpowder Priceless........
Ringing the steel....enjoyable......Watching it fly apart.........
Steelhead and Edge.........a blast......


Haiku?
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Offline EDGE

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2009, 03:22:33 PM »
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Offline bobland

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2009, 10:28:31 AM »
The LRTR web page recommends 260 and others.  If they recommend this cartridge why would they specify 30 cal only?
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Offline EDGE

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2009, 11:24:50 AM »
Quote from: bobland on July 08, 2009, 10:28:31 AM
The LRTR web page recommends 260 and others.  If they recommend this cartridge why would they specify 30 cal only?

Link???
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Offline J Mack

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2009, 11:43:50 AM »
Quote from: EDGE on July 08, 2009, 11:24:50 AM
Link???

http://www.parmarng.org/ShootingEvents/LRTR/LRTR.htm

Quote
If you’d rather follow the beat of a different drum, there are plenty of other calibers out there that in some cases beat the .308. Calibers such as the 243 Winchester, 260 Remington, 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm WSM, .30-06, .300 Winchester Magnum, .338 Lapua Magnum and .338 Edge are viable options. With the bigger calibers listed, you will get the benefit of longer range, but the disadvantage of shorter barrel life. You may not be allowed to shoot some of the larger calibers in some competitions too.
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Offline zona5101

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2009, 02:13:35 PM »
Quote from: J Mack on July 08, 2009, 11:43:50 AM
http://www.parmarng.org/ShootingEvents/LRTR/LRTR.htm

So to be clear, long range tactical rifle (LRTR) is a phrase first coined by Parma R&G  (as far as anyone I know can tell). It is essentially a military sniper match (as compared to a LE Sniper match). All across the country folks shoot 'sniper" matches and shoot various calibers including the .243 & .260 or other sub .30 cals. The article EDGE wrote for the Parma website includes these calibers in describing the sport.

More specifically to the  minimum .30 caliber comment: In the past, the match organizer for the Parma LRTRs has specified a min cal of .30 for the Parma matches basically because he doesn't like p*ssy guns. His matches are geared towards military engagements and as such you should be shooting a bullet that would actually be used in such an engagement.
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Michael N

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2009, 02:16:14 PM »
Quote from: zona5101 on July 08, 2009, 02:13:35 PM
His matches are geared towards military engagements and as such you should be shooting a bullet that would actually be used in such an engagement.


So a .223 would be fine  ;)
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Offline zona5101

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2009, 04:05:13 PM »
Quote from: Michael N on July 08, 2009, 02:16:14 PM
So a .223 would be fine  ;)
ya that or 9mm from a Beretta ...just gotta dial in a tad bit more elevation for the 1200y shots... 8)
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Offline EDGE

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2009, 04:58:08 PM »
Quote from: J Mack on July 08, 2009, 11:43:50 AM
http://www.parmarng.org/ShootingEvents/LRTR/LRTR.htm


ok, I just wanted to make sure that was the page he was refering to.

There are many elements that one needs to think about for "sniper" or LRTR type shooting:

1) Are you going to just shoot paper and steel or do you want something that will defeat hard barriers?
2) In a pinch, would you need a round that is commonly available in most stores?
3) How often do you want to change barrels out?
4) Do you want something that you can also hunt with and will down most North American game?
5) How much recoil can you handle?
6) Do you want to shoot specialty bullets, such as steel core, incindiary, etc?

Just to name a few.

Personally I think the .308 is the best all around cartridge for these 5 questions.  Yes there are better, faster, stronger, but with everything there is "give and take".  The current trend in Military circles is to go bigger and faster (i.e. 300WM and 338 Lapua).  This is great for long distance engagements and Hard Target Interdiction, but what they are creating is lower barrel life and possible shooter fatigue from all pounding that these two cartridges give out.

I'm still researching these new 6 - 6.5 mm bullets.  There are a lot of people winning matches with them, but when it comes right down to it, what would these same shooters pick if they had to go "play in the sandbox"?  Some that I've conversed with said they'd take the .308 or something bigger.  Not because it's readily available, but because of the performance.  However there are some who said they'd take their .260 if ammo was readily available.  So who knows?  I'd like to see some hard evidence that a 6mm bullet will go through cinder blocks as easily as a .308, etc.

Having not seen for myself, but have been told by reliable sources.......the 6mm type bullets do incredible damage on steel.  If that's the case, then some of my questions have been answered.  Some have told me they think the .260's recoild worse than a .308.  I have a hard time believing that, but that's what they tell me.

There's always going to be arguments over what works best.  Personally I like .308 for most of my LRTR shooting, but I'm open to other cartridges.  A couple of years ago, I was shooting in a competition against Shawn Carlock, who shoots a .260, and at that time was the USPSA Western region champ.  I watched him screw up one stage, but then he came back and smoked the rest with that .260 and ended up winning the competition.

So to answer the original question......I would use your .243 and if it works good for you, then keep it.  If not, think about switching to a different caliber.  It was mentioned earlier that George Garner shoots .243.  One thing to remember is, George could be using a .308 and still smoke all our butts!!!  It's not necessarily the cartridge......
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Offline bobland

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2009, 05:49:26 PM »
Looking at the web page, these guys shoot a broad variety of guns.  Are they all, or mostly 308?  Are there other events like this within a reasonable driving distance?
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Offline J Mack

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2009, 06:23:24 PM »
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Offline luckypunk

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2009, 10:03:41 PM »
All the cool kids have a .260REM
  
Some reading

If you don't reload stick w/ .243, .308 ect
anecdotal on recoil,  .260 kimber montana 6.5# gun kicks way less than my 13# AR10

6.5 x 139 gr = Ballistic Coefficient:  .615
Q3031 for comparison


« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 10:11:17 PM by luckypunk »
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Offline EDGE

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2009, 08:34:21 AM »
Quote from: bobland on July 08, 2009, 05:49:26 PM
Looking at the web page, these guys shoot a broad variety of guns.  Are they all, or mostly 308?  Are there other events like this within a reasonable driving distance?

bobland,

Is this web page the Parma Rod and Gun web page?  Someone else answered for you, but you haven't confirmed.

If it is the Parma site, then I can tell you that the majority of LRTR shooters at Parma shoot .308.  Next most common is probably .300WM followed by .223.
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Offline zona5101

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2009, 03:32:40 PM »
Quote from: EDGE on July 09, 2009, 08:34:21 AM
bobland,

Is this web page the Parma Rod and Gun web page?  Someone else answered for you, but you haven't confirmed.

If it is the Parma site, then I can tell you that the majority of LRTR shooters at Parma shoot .308.  Next most common is probably .300WM followed by .223.
...but we make the .223 guys stay in the shallow end of the pool...  8)
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Offline bobland

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Re: .243 for long range
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2009, 05:33:16 PM »
A response from Longbow:
Quote
Any Caliber is fine. We have kicked the idea of different classes based on
caliber. If you have   read  the Parma sites info  on LRTR you  will
understand   why .308 is probably the best to  start with.

I guess I'm still on the fence about caliber, especially since I've yet to purchase one.
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