Topic: Best Scope Base and Barrel Break-In (again)

[TrooperBrian]

I'm going to be needing a new scope base and rings here pretty soon, I hope to have a Mark4 someday, but for now the cheap NcStar I bought will have to do. I am not looking to spend too much, so what would be a good scope base for the money?

Also, as asked 1000 and then 50000 more times, I understand that break-in for match, custom grade barrels and chrome-lined and military barrels is a myth and completely useless. But for say a normal factory barrel like a Rem700, worth the effort?

[luckypunk]

I wouldn't break in more than what it takes to sight it in.

I have the kickass setup for a rem 700.  they are Talley one piece base & rings for a 1" tube

yours for $20

[luvmy45]

Assuming that you are mounting on the 700, I have had good luck with EGW one piece bases, around $40. And you can get them in 20MOA for extended range on the scope.

For rings, again I've had good luck with the Burris Xtreme Tactical around $50 or so, can't remember off the top of my head. you can get them in 30mm.

If you need 1" I think you can still get the Burris in 1", but the $20 deal would be a great start.

Brian

PS - As far as break in, I have no idea, but from what I've read, it's a good way to shorten barrel/throat life. Spend the rounds that you would use breaking in the barrel to shoot more groups and get more practice, that will improve your shooting. Most guns will shoot better than their shooter anyway, so why not spend the time shooting 

[J Mack]

TB,

It’s not a bad idea to clean the throat with good copper remover after every couple of shots with a new barrel and don’t be afraid to scrub this area with a back and forth motion using a good rod and jag/patch combo.
 When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it; copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when you break in a barrel, your goal is to get the throat polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.
 The best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in; i.e. when the fouling is reduced (if you not familiar with a chemical copper cleaner like Sweets 7.62 bore cleaner it will turn your patches blue or green when removing copper fouling and patches will stay clean if no copper is present).
 This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as I have seen practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either.

[NGO]

Having now broke in three AR-10's with SS barrels, one DPMS .308, a 300 win Mag (on a Win 70 platform) over the last three months I can tell you break in works and are very much needed!!!

The first ten shots were shoot-clean. the SS barrels have been the worst. The first shot would take three treatments a day for five days of soaking to remove the copper off the lands throat. (I found of several products tried that Montana "Copper Killer" to be the best copper remover out there, lots of fresh air required!!!!)

Then three shots moving on to five shots and finally ten shot. The SS AR really needed the cleaning time and not until I was at 80 rounds did the barrels start to clean with one treatment after ten shots.

PLUS the pattern really didn't tighten up until around 65 rounds. Fom flyers everywhere at first to finally an acceptable group by the time I shot a hundred rounds thru the bores. I would not trust a weapon to group if you haven't put at least 65 or so rounds thru it.

The steel barrels cleaned up sooner but still the cleaning became easier and the groups tighten up after 50 rounds.

From this experience I can say that you need some sort of break in of not less than 65 rounds. The amount of copper at first is of concern and the "pores" or "machine marks" did get less copper build up as rounds count went up. Especially at first!!!! The first ten rounds must be shoot-clean. the next 21 (three shot groups) are a little better . Then it becomes a quicker process to remove the copper.

65 to 100 rounds is minor in the life of the bore. But now I can hunt confident knowing where the bullet is going.

[TrooperBrian]

NGO, would you actually attribute this accuracy to your break-in procedure? Or like J Mack said, just the throat being polished out by natural firing. All I have here is Outers Nitro Solvent, would this work ok or should I just pick up another bottle of just copper solvent?

It sounds like we are starting to get some mixed opinions here, some of you say just shoot it and some say to stick to this ridiculously religious cleaning regiment. 

[J Mack]

TB

I will be shooting tomorrow out at my spot and I have every thing you need.

Shoot me a PM or give me a call and I will work with your schedule.

[NGO]

Just what I said.

You could see the copper plating the top of the lands all the way down the bore.

Throat would also have some influence I'm sure but I would want the copper building up on the lands either.

Just pasted on what I have recently experiance with new weapons on several platforms.

Copper Killer , is the way to go ...much better than anything else. They also make a bore solvent which I really like also. But you better have lots of fresh air or you will die!!!!

[TrooperBrian]

TB

I will be shooting tomorrow out at my spot and I have every thing you need.

Shoot me a PM or give me a call and I will work with your schedule.

I wish I could! I'm still over here in Oregon, thus the neighboring states thread..

[Nomad]

 Scope bases as 20-40 moa depends if you are going to shoot very long ranges
with in 800-1000 yds a standard base will work. For a A10 style with stainless
barrel or any other barrels, Bench rest shooters use JB bore paste have used
for several barrels, shoot one clean do this ten times with JB bore paste clean
until patch is clean, then shoot three- three shot groups clean after each group of
three, then two five shots groups clean after each five shot group...The barrel should
shine inside easy to clean, W
 With Sweets 762 is good to use in general barrel cleaning after general shooting, this
may sound off the wall but use Windex glass cleaner in bore after sweets followed by dry patch
 After 300 to 500 rounds clean with JB paste read the instruction and do it....
 On chrome line barrels clean first to remove dirt and dust then shoot 100 clean with JB paste
shoot another 100 clean with JB paste now just standard cleaning after that...
 There is as many was to break in a barrel as there are barrel makers and people who shoot and
break in their barrels.Y
 Yes you will see as shooting and cleaning your group tighten up.
 Look at a hole that is drilled in a piece of metal you will see the roughness and the new barrel on
your rifle is the same was unless lapped at factory.....
 Now others have more to say.........You choice as to what to do........and need.

[Precise]

Both of these companies put out great products. I've installed the Warne one piece tactical base on my Rem 700 and have used TPS steel rings on both of my 30mm scopes. They're made in Oregon and these people are a pleasure to work with.

Neither of these parts are cheap, but you get what you pay for and they are solid.

Don't forget to either purchase or borrow a http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=453687 to mount and align your scope. These come in either 1" or 30mm.

http://www.tpsproducts.com/

http://www.tpsproducts.com/index.php?cPath=14_22_23

http://www.tpsproducts.com/index.php?cPath=14

http://www.warnescopemounts.com/tactical_rings.html

[J Mack]

TB

Then I would recommend you get some KG-2 bore paste – Sweets 7.62 – some lightweight gun oil and some solvent for cleaning powder fouling, also pick up a good cleaning rod, jag and patches if you don’t already have them.

This is what I do on a factory barrel assuming you do not have a hand lapped aftermarket barrel.
 First clean you barrel well with some solvent (I use carburetor cleaner because it’s cheep and works good but any will do) just make sure you remove all oil or preservative from the factory.
 Second scrub the bore and throat with KG-2 bore paste on a patch for about 20 to 30 strokes being careful to try not to exit the muzzle but still get full stokes then clean with solvent until you get clean patches followed by light oil. This will ensure your new barrel is clean and ready to shoot.
 Third push a dry patch though your barrel to remove any excess oil and shoot one shot, clean bore and throat with solvent to remove carbon then dry patch followed by scrubbing with Sweets 7.62 copper remover let this sit for just a few minutes no longer than 15 then scrub again with Sweets looking for clean patches with no blue or green color, this my take several try’s on the first couple of shots but you need to remove all copper before you next shot. Once the patches come out clean you will push a couple of dry patches through then solvent – dry patch – light oil – dry patch – shoot again.
Repeat as necessary but in my experience if you patches are still coming out bright blue after ten shots you skipped step two or you have a rough barrel bore at any rate repeat step two then move on to step three until you can shoot one shot without the patch turning bright blue, some small spots of light blue is normal just not solid bright blue.
 Forth after patches are looking good for one shot shoot one three shot group then clean again looking for blue patches, if you fallowed the steps above this patch should have just slight copper fouling.
Lastly shoot a five shot group and clean just to confirm your barrel is burnishing and not pulling copper.
You should be good to go after this and repeat the cleaning procedure when you notice your groups opening up.

The cleaners I mentioned above are not the only ones that work just some of the ones I use and the results I get using them, your results might differ if you substitute products for instance I also use KG-12 copper remover but it is yellow and much slower and harder to tell when you barrel is copper free when breaking in a new barrel.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Jim

[TrooperBrian]

I'll have to place another order with Midway here pretty soon. I'm going to be getting most of the products you recommended and a carbon fiber cleaning rod. Most of the time I use slotted tips on my AR because I can't get the jag I bought to fit down the bore. But I'll be sure to get a jag for this one. Thanks for the help!

[NGO]

use a jag, you only want the dirt to go one way. Out the front.( about 6 to 8 squares soaked with Bore Slovent.)



I will use a plastic brush and then jag a couple more times with bore solvent.  You want no soot left  in the bore.


Then I will use a spilt tip to place some "copper killer" into the bore


Then after it soaks, for at least a half hour, jag a bore solvent and you will see blue liquid ( copper being removed.) OUT the front


Jag a couple times until bore is clean again.

spilt tip with "copper killer" soak

jag with a bore solvet  ( repeat until your get no more blue coming out)




Then use a split tip and put some oil into the bore.

use the split tip to get excess oil out of the chamber, and bore ( use a thin patch for this leaving a little film of oil)