Topic: A post about surviving Katrina from another Forum - Part 1

[Spiff]

This is from poster JWarren from Saiga-12.com:

I’ll take a stab at specifically answering your questions before I post a paste of things I’ve wrote in the past:

I want to point out a couple things in order for what I write to make sense:

1. My own house is on a 3 mile long private road within an overgrown forest just across the state line in Mississippi. I anticipated the need to not weather the storm at my home due to the anticipation of the road becoming blocked. Plus, my wife wanted to be near her family.

2. Because of this, we packed 3 days worth of clothes and supplies, anticipating it to be that long before we could return to our home. We stayed at my Father-in-Law’s home in Bogalusa, LA (Washington Parish). He lives in an almost rural subdivision just outside the city limits (about 1.5 miles from the highway down a private road.) Incidentily we discovered after the storm that the eye of the hurricane passed within 10 miles of his home.

3. Both my father-in-law and my father have access to tractors, chainsaws, etc.


“When did things start getting crazy?”


It really depends on what you mean by crazy. The storm started coming in early in the morning for us. Mainly we just sat tight and listened to the wind. We were far enough inland that we didn’t expect there to be any more problems than we went through during Hurricane Camille (for those that were old enough to remember that one) It was about 7:30-ish when I started realizing we were getting more than we planned on. At that time, we started seeing all the trees falling in the lawn. Sometime after that, (I think it was 8:30-ish) I KNEW we had problems. A large oak tree went through my father-in-law’s master bedroom. I think that was when I started realizing that this was not the hurricane I expected it to be. I suppose that was when I realized we could actually be in danger.

At 11:30 AM the winds had slowed to about “gale-force” and we were able to go out into the storm. Immediately we realized that we were trapped in the subdivision. Fortunately, My father-in-law’s cousin lived nearby and had a tractor with a front-end lift. With him on the tractor and my father-in-law and I using chainsaws, it took us about 10 hours to clear approximately 300 trees off the road in order to reach the highway.

By now, I had a full understanding of the severity of our situation. I was worried that my father and mother may not be safe and there was no way to contact them. So, at about 9:00 that night, my wife and I took off in my Jeep to drive the 15 miles North in order to check on my parents. The trip took me a little under 2 hours. Fortunately, they were alright, and their home was undamaged. I had no idea, however, what the condition of my home was. (I managed to make my way to it on a 4 wheeler using a gas pipleline as a road approximately a week later—I had 2 oak trees on the house.)


I don’t know if all this answered the question, but that was day one. By the end of the night, I was dirty, wet, cold, and bleeding from a dozen or so small injuries from cutting out. I think we were all literally in shock and doing our best to meet the immediate needs. We were not able to look at the big picture yet.



QUOTE
“What types of things were you able to stock up on at the last minute?”
Essentially nothing. Again, we were expecting to have the power go out, the phones go out, and probably have a few trees down. All we really did for preparation was fill a number of containers with water for drinking and flushing toilets. We had a few flashlights and candles on hand. I, being the guy I am, had the foresight to bring my AK-47, my Glock 19, a Swiss Army Knife, about 500 feet of parachute cord, and about 3 days’ worth of clothes with me to my father-in-law’s home.

By the time we started realizing this was not what we anticipated, it was too late. We were already trapped in our homes.


QUOTE
“What did you manage to survive on during those several weeks?”


Food-wise, we were in great shape for the first week or so. The refrigerators and freezers would keep for about 3 days. One of the greatest challenges you have is trying to keep enough generator power going to the freezers to prolong the frozen status of your food. For the first week or so, we were able to cook everything we feared would spoil in the freezers. As funny as this sounds, we ate like kings for that first week. Now, granted we are hunters and had a lot of game meat in large freezers. Some didn’t have this luxury.

A lot of my activities over the 8 weeks were bringing food and gasoline to many people in my home town who had neither the means nor money to do so. Another part (to be discussed later, was going making a lot of trips to Baton Rouge for supplies and gasoline—2 hours away.)

After the food in the freezers started going, it was getting slim. That was when we started moving to the canned food. I want to point out that even after a week, there essentially was NO emergency response to our area. All the concern was over the MS gulf coast and particularly New Orleans. The more rural areas were forgotten. I believe I saw my first emergency vehicle in our area almost 2 weeks after the storm—and the amount was always slim.




QUOTE
“So what did a typical day consist of?”
My day on average primarily consisted of managing supplies and caring for others. You’d be shocked at how fast division of labor occurs when something like this happens. I’ll give an example:

My wife primarily took care of the family and neighbor’s children. She’s a pre-school and she lives for that kind of thing. She also did most of the cleaning. You’d be surprised how dusty things get when you have to keep the house open all the time.

My mother-in-law frankly stayed in a condition of shock for a long time. We did our best to keep her from being upset. She was completely overwhelmed with the situation. We had her do a few small things to occupy her time and take her mind off the destruction. One role she held as her own was cooking and planning meals.

My father-in-law immediately took the role of cleaning the property. In addition, he and I both spent a lot of time helping a lot of the elderly get tarps on their roofs and generally helping them get as comfortable as possible.

I was, if anything, a provisions person. I monitored our use of gasoline and perishables, as well as identified what we needed but did not have on hand. Gasoline was always a problem. Originally, we only had about 20 gallons worth of fuel containers. This was causing me to take entirely too many trips to find places to get fuel. I finally went to a farm supply and purchased a 250 gallon industrial fuel tank. A 2 hour drive and 800 dollars later, I felt that our fuel shortage was in a better position. Every two days, I made a trip to my parents’ home to deliver fuel and whatever they asked me to find for them. I’d spend the rest of that day using my father’s tractor and a chainsaw to clear more of the road to my house. (Before I finished, one of the oil companies who has a natural gas well near my home came in with heavy machinery and cleared the rest of the road.)






QUOTE
“Would you mind being specific about any self-defense situations that arose? “



There are more detailed accounts in the cut-and-paste threads I put in this post, but in general:

Three times over the 8 weeks, we heard the dogs bark in the middle of the night. Upon investigating, we found looters trying to get supplies or our generator. We never were able to detain anyone—as soon as they heard noise and saw lights they took off. I put a couple shots each time over their heads to reinforce their desire not to return. Some our neighbors did not fair as well. One had their generator stolen while they slept. The looters cranked their lawn-mower to mimic the sound of the generator, cut off the generator and made off with it. One neighbor how owns a store was accosted by armed looters within the first week at his store. Fortunately for him, he was also armed. He was forced to shoot the looters. I don’t know what he carried or the details of it. I’ve just never asked him the details.

On of my experiences is detailed in the post about going to get the 250 gallons of gasoline.

All in all, it wasn’t all that big of a deal. Looters started realizing very quickly that it was dangerous to get near anyone’s home or around anyone who had something worth protecting.




QUOTE
“What would you have done (and hopefully are doing) differently for next time around?
What kinds of things would you recommend that would otherwise slip my mind?”



I’m still working on this, but I hope the things in my SHTF primer and the other writing will help. I’ll see if I can get something better together soon.


I apologize if all this that I’ve written and pasted is disorganized. I’m trying to get something more organized together between work and family needs.


At any rate, here are the posts and SHTF primer work that I’m working on. I hope you can make sense out of it. Feel free anytime to PM me with questions or comments!

John

[Spiff]

This is from poster JWarren from Saiga-12.com:


The pastes:


Since the storm, I've spend a LOT of time reflecting on what went well and what didn't-- and altering things based on those reflections. Obviously, I am not the only one that went through that gawd-aweful thing around here, and they may well have takes on it as well.

One thing I wanted to mention is that I can see a SIGNIFICANT difference in the experiece you will have in one of those events depending on where you are. If you are in a metropolitian area like New Orleans, you are going to have a very different set of issues than if you live in the outskirts or rural areas.

While I can observe the metropolitian areas, my experieces are from an outskirts/rural environment. All of your preparations are different from metropolitian needs. Most likely, you are not preparing for an evacuation, rather you are preparing to "Bug-in," lock down, and dig out.

That means a number of things:

It means equipment. It means a means of fresh water and food. It means fuel, and rugged transportation with hauling capacity. It means being able to defend that area.

It also means one MAJOR thing: You are forgotten. I am not saying that in a negative way. But the reality is that all outside support is only worried about what they are seeing on the news. With resources so limited, emergency officials CANNOT deal with the outskirts or rural areas when there are so many in the cities in a concentrated fashion. Basically, help IS NOT coming for you.

A lot of officials think "No News is good news." THIS was actually said by the governor regarding my area in the aftermath when asked why no emergency personnel was sent for over 7 days. It never occured to them that there was NO NEWS because it was impossible to get news out of my area. Often, No news is REALLY bad news." (The eye came straight over us, and tornados devistated most of the area.

Of course, most of us were perfectly happy that no one was coming, considering what we were hearing on AM radio coming out of NO. We'd rather not have to deal with them, too. By the time anyone showed up, private citizens had already cleared most of our roads at least to a passible condition.


I did put a bit of observations about vehicles on another thread in this forum. I'll cut and paste it here:


I've seen a lot of the old responses on this thread with varying ideas for vehicles and even service animals for a SHTF scenerio. What works largely depends on what type of SHTF were are talking about.

If we are talking about the end of life as we know it with no recovery in sight, sure... get a horse.

Most of these responses were pre-Katrina, and while that isn't the only SHTF scenerio out there, it is a good example of what could be expected again from a number of causes.

I lived through Katrina and did have to do a significant amount of driving during that time. I'll add my observations, if I may:

1. Whatever you have needs to be able to carry cargo. Unless everything you could EVER possibly need is can fit on your back, a motorcycle is NOT a real option for sustained periods. I want to point out that for short "check on the neighbors" type of trips, we did use a four-wheeler primarily because it was handy to get through blocked roads and had far better fuel economy.

2. Whatever you have NEEDS to have a towing package. More of your SHTF movement is going to get things or delivering things. Otherwise, you won't be choosing to leave the place you have prepared. A couple times, I had to obtain something that needed a trailer to move.

3. Whatever you have NEEDS to have decent ground clearance. I don't mean necessarily putting in a lift kit, but it needs to have at least the clearance of a typical 4X4 truck. I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee that BARELY had sufficient ground clearance. You are going to go over debris at times, but more importantly, you may be crossing deep pockets of water. When we finally cut enough trees for me to get to the highway after Katrina (9:00 the night of landfall) I took off to make sure my parents were alive and safe. Along the way, there were a few places ON the road where there was flooding. I was able to cross it, but there were dozens of flooded out cars that were not so lucky.

4. You need to have something IN your vehicle that can lift downed power lines. One of the biggest obstacles to travel even days after landfall was powerlines in the roads with no way to go around them. What worked best for me was a 2X4 long enough to create clearance for my Jeep, and with a notch cut out in the shape of a V on one side to hold the line. You are gonna use this a LOT.

5. I didn't get in a situation where I needed a winch, except for the first night-- still a winch doesn't hurt.

6. A brush guard type frontend is handy but hardly necessary.

7. A undercarriage guard IS a VERY nice thing to have.

8. This IS IMPORTANT. It is crucial that you have some means to FIX a FLAT TIRE and re-inflate it. They make small air-pumps that plug into your cigerette lighter that are GREAT. I used one a number of times. Have a plug kit handy somewhere in the vehicle.

9. In my honest opinion, A 4 door TRUCK is MUCH better than a SUV in a SHTF. You can essentially carry the same number of people, but you ALSO have A LOT more cargo space at the same time. Plus, there are going to be times you haul stuff that you'd rather not have inside your SUV on your carpets. There will be things you haul that may have vapors that you seriously do not want to inhale. My next vehicle will be a 4 door truck with a lockable bed cover.

10. Some may raise an eyebrow at what I am about to say, but it is true. I'd probably go the route of a gasoline engine over a diesel engine in a situation like Katrina. If we were in a end of the world, sure diesel is great-- make your own bio-diesel. However, in a shorter-term situation, you are going to want to be able to obtain fuel. It was hard enough to get gasoline, but diesel was impossible. Why? Because essentially everywhere that had diesel was required to hold it back and not sell it in order to have it available for emergency vehicles, which ran primarily on diesel.

Even though I could have used my father's new Dodge cummings turbo diesel, we had to keep it parked for fear of running low on diesel. We needed all the diesel we had to put in tractors.

11. Only once did I find myself in a situation where I would have rather had four-wheel drive. Overall, it is nice, but it's going to cut down on your fuel economy. It's a toss up. I know that I DID do well without it, but that doesn't mean I ALWAYS would. Besides, I do have access to other 4X4 vehicles if I knew I needed to get somewhere particularly nasty.

12. Keep a spotlight in the vehicle. You will find times you need to see what is to the left or right of you at night. Turning your lights in that direction will rarely be an option. A spot light makes things safer and easier.


13. Edit: Thought of another one. Don't laugh when you read this, but trust me. Keep one of those cans of Baby Wipes somewhere in the vehicle. It's not going to keep you alive, but it WILL make things a lot nicer on you. My wife is a Preschool teacher and uses them alot. She had some in my vehicle and they got used a LOT. They are antibacterial so they may go a ways in keeping you from getting some sickness (I kept a sore throat the entire time of Katrina due to accidental exposure to funky water.) They were good for a "spot bath." A lot of people may thing "Bah, I'm tougher than that... who cares?" Well, I'll tell you... it was 3 days before I could get my first bath, and those were three days of working dawn to dusk with chain saw and getting REAL nasty. You will be surprised at how much better and entergetic you will feel when you can simply wipe some of the gunk off your hands and face.



From another thread:

(Someone asked about ballistic armor: )

My response:

Only rarely did I feel that I would have liked something like that-- mainly going into town or to the cities where gasoline was available (Baton Rouge had a huge refugee-- err... excuse me-- EVACUEE population). There, however, there was a significant police presence and enough of a crowd to dissuade any major problems.

Second, if there is ONE thing that will stick with me forever is the HEAT. I will never complain about the cost of air conditioning my house again! It was so hot inside the houses that we could not stay inside. Outside, it was not much better-- and outside, mosquitos the size of small dogs almost carried us away. I really don't think I could have standed being in ANY type of protective gear while working outside in daylight hours. Even drinking water, I realized one day that I had not had to urinate for almost 24 hours. That is a symptom of becoming seriously dehydrated. That will be your most pressing concern. Not far from our house, a young mother lost her baby because the child would not take liquids fast enough.

Now all that said:

Even while working, I open carried a Glock 19 with a round chambered on a web belt along with a spare 15 round magazine. Practically everyone open carried on thier belt, and no one even thought a second about it. It was sort of odd seeing some of the elderly men in the neighborhood breaking out the old police issue .38 specials and strapping them on!

I've thought a lot about firearms preparation since then. In the aftermath of Katrina, I kept a SAR-1 AK-47 handy at all times. But realistically, your most important SHTF weapon you will carry is your handgun. Not because it is so good for varying purposes, but because you will have it ON YOUR PERSON 24/7. There will be places that you just can't carry in a long gun of any kind, yet those are the places you will probably WANT to be armed the most.

Please understand I am not talking about a SHTF where you are trying to hunt to survive on an extended basis when I say this, but probably your best home and/or vehicle protection arms will be your handgun on your hip open carried, and some sort of pump/automatic shotgun.

Anyone coming for your gear or equipment is going to be with close quarter proximity to you. Handguns are great when its all you have. A shotgun is probably top of the heap for dealing with those punks.

However... I would almost place a intermediate-round assault rifle-style rife such as an AR-15 or AK-47 right up there with a shotgun for effectiveness.

I don't like saying what I am about to say, but it IS the truth. There IS and WILL be a certain deterent quality to openly having a firearm on your belt, OR having an Assault-style weapon visible on your property. I really don't like thinking of my firearms as a VISIBLE deterent because that smacks of being a "Billy Bad-Ass" looking for a fight and daring someone to step up. However, I will not deny that I have SEEN the deterent effect work before my eyes.

When I finally got sick of taking so many trips to Baton Rouge for fuel, I broke down and bought a 250 gallon fuel tank from a farm supply. I headed to BR to fill it with what ended up to be over $800 dollars worth of gasoline. The tarp we brought to cover the tank would not cover it.

And of course, as we are leaving, my wife suddenly remembers that the women needed us to pick up a couple things at... gasp.... Wal-Mart! (the absolutely WORST place you want to show up with 250 gallons of fuel in a prolonged SHTF!)

I told her to go in and I would stay with the Jeep since there was NO way I would leave that unsupervised. As I am patiently waiting in far part of the parking lot (only place you could pull in a trailer), I opened the door of the Jeep and hung out slightly with my foot on the rail in order to be able to swing around to see all directions. I notice a lot of people eyeing my cargo as they passed. No problem.

However, after some time I see a crew of young men and one woman who had passed some time earlier come back. They approached from what would have ordinarily been my blind side had I not realized that it WOULD be my blind side and made sure I could see that direction in my driver's side mirror.

I see the men making a bee-line towards me, but moving rather slowly. Before they got to the back of the Jeep, I stepped out off the side rail of the Jeep, preparing to turn around. As I stepped down, the AK pulled out of the Jeep and came to my side (I had the sling around my body where it would fall to my waist in a firing postion.)

As I turn around, I get an entertaining site of that crew of punks running in ALL directions though the parking lot.

Because they were watching me so closely to notice my AK come out of the Jeep, I have no doubt that the plan was to slip up on me, overpower me, and take the Jeep, cargo, and all.

Just another of those interesting little memories... I hope it somehow helps someone.

[Spiff]

This is from poster JWarren from Saiga-12.com:

The Outline for a SHTF Primer I am working on for THR:


About a week ago, someone asked if I would write a thread about what my family and I learned in living through the aftermath of Katrina in the devastated zone.

I am starting this as an outline form where I will attempt to flesh it out later. Some of what I will write may seem odd, and some of it may seem excessive. I am only writing from what worked and did not work in MY situation.

Some will not have the resources available to them that I did and I understand that. However, what I listed is what will get you by, and the lack of it COULD make life very difficult for you. Everyone’s situation will be different, just like every SHTF will have its own characteristics, duration, and obstacles to overcome.

I realize that I am specifically writing this towards a Katrina-like occurrence in a fairly warm climate. I do this because that IS my situation, and that was what I experienced. I think it would be very beneficial for others in other geographic regions to do a similar writing—such as those who had winter storms in CO.

I hope this can help someone, and I hope it may serve as a good blueprint to get started with. Again, I will be adding to this or fleshing it out with the rationale behind the points as time is available.


--- John


SHTF primer:


I. Food and Water


A. Count on spoilage in 3 days
B. Cook as much as you can before spoilage
C. You will be eating Canned food and MRE’s after 3 days. Have it on hand.
D. If you need coffee as a luxury (I did), get a Grill-top coffee maker such as a percolator.
E. Paper plates are very handy
F. Get at least one good 55 gallon PVC drum and drum stand for drinking water
G. Get a few 55 gallon drums for washing and cleaning water.
H. Have bottles you can carry water out with you when you work. You can refill these.
I. Boil any water you intend to drink if you are not absolutely sure.
J. Do not let unsure water get near any of your orifices—even while washing.
K. Plan on cooking on propane. Get either numerous propane tanks or a outside mounted tank
L. Have an attachment where you can attach the mounted tank to an outside grill.


II. Tools to get by

A. More than one chainsaw
1. Chainsaw fuel mix
2. Spare chains
3. Chain oil (this will be the first thing the stores are out of when you begin to look)
4. Chainsaw sharpener
B. Bolt cutters (for power lines)
C. A good set of screwdrivers and socket wrenches
D. A couple good knives
E. Tractor (if this is an option to you)
1. Have a Box Blade attachment
2. Have Boom attachment or Front Lift
3. Have a logger’s hook
4. Have a few good Chains
5. Have a supply of Tax-exempt diesel for the tractor

III. Fuel needs

A. Get numerous 5 gallon gas cans. You will not be able to buy then when you need them, or do what I did:
B. A good option is a 250 gallon farm fuel tank. Make sure you check the valve before you buy. Some leak bad. I got one for $75 dollars new.
C. Get a hand siphon pump at any auto-store. Gasoline doesn’t taste good.
D. Make sure you have fuel mix for chainsaws
E. Have diesel if you have a tractor. Tax-exempt is available for farm equipment.
F. Gasoline vehicles are probably best during the aftermath. Diesel was not available or heavily rationed due to emergency vehicles. However, Diesel stores better and longer.

IV. Living Quarters

A. Have good perimeter lighting capabilities
B. Have a lot of outdoor chairs
C. Have a good folding table or two
D. Have a fire-pit
E. Candles will go fast—and produce a lot of heat
F. Have Several flashlights
G. Have a few table top lights
H. Plan to sleep in a communal room
I. Have a small window unit air-conditioner in that room.

V. Cleanliness

A. Your home will be dusty due to having windows open and tracking in.
B. Clean out freezers and refrigerator before things spoil
C. Have water on hand in bathrooms to flush toilets
D. Have containers to haul heated water to a bath tub for bathing
E. Large pot where soiled clothing can be washed in hot water
F. Have a good supply of parachute cord to create clothes drying lines
G. Keep a lot of Baby wipes
H. Have an area where water can be heated for washing any dishes
I. Establish a burn area for debris and/or waste.

VI. Communications

A. Have a Radio, hand crank is nice option
B. Lots of batteries, or battery re-chargers
C. Go with satellite TV over cable
D. Walkie-talkie is handy

VII. Neighbors

A. Get on good terms with your neighbors—maybe organize with them.
B. Keep a check on elderly in your neighborhood

VIII. Children

A. Plan to have Board Games
B. Plan to have Toys
C. Keep some Paper and writing instruments
D. Have Books on hand
E. Someone will have to keep an eye on children

IX. Cash
A. Keep $1,000 dollars in cash hidden somewhere. No, this isn’t a lot of money and goes fast!

X. Health and Comfort

A. Have a First aid kit—a good one
B. Keep a month’s supply of Medicines you take on hand
C. Have Band-aids, bandages and topical antiseptic
D. Boil any water you plan to drink unless it if from your drinking supply
E. Don’t let unsafe water anywhere near any of your orifices.
F. Have a good supply of Insect Repellent and Skin-So-Soft (works better than Insect Repellant—get it from Avon)
G. Have a good rain suit
H. Loose comfortable work clothes
I. Have a Wide-brimmed hat
J. Have Safety glasses (trust me!)
K. Have good work gloves

XI. Damage to your home

A. Have a number of tarps
B. Have a good supply of nails and a good hammer
C. Keep a couple sheets of plywood around—the more the better
D. Always have some Duct Tape
E. Keep Disposable Cameras on hand to document damage for insurance.

XII. Transportation
A. A Truck will be better than a SUV.
B. Four-wheel drive is nice, not may not be necessary
C. Gasoline truck is probably going to be better over Diesel due to rationing.
D. A Towing package is a MUST
E. Need a small trailer
F. A Four-wheeler is handy for nearby travel—especially one with a small trailer

XIII. Generators

A. Get at least a 7 kwt generator. That is a minimum. I am getting a 21 kwt one soon.
B. HAVE a back-up generator—trust me
C. Get electric start… trust me
D. Have heavy chains to lock the generator to a heavy stationary object like the house.
E. Make sure you get a current stabilizer for sensitive equipment like freezer motors, water pumps, and battery chargers. You will burn up these pieces of equipment otherwise.

XIV. Defense and Hunting (Avoiding the my gun is better than yours discussion)

A. A decent rifle that can pull double duty in defense and hunting.
B. A shotgun that can pull double duty in defense and hunting
C. A 22 rimfire rifle
D. At least 2 handguns
E. A good supply of ammunition for each of these firearms.
F. Make sure you have hunting rounds included.
G. For shotguns, having 00 buckshot and #6 shot will suffice.
H. A reloader is handy and lowers cost

XV. Division of Labor

A. Determine who is interested and best suited for different areas. (Example: My wife kept up with all the children for basically everyone, my mother-in-law did the cooking and shared cleaning duties with my wife, my father-in-law and I did the digging out and heavy work.)
B. Stay out of each others’ way.

[Nomad]

 Thanks for the post, great information and things to look at........

[9Shooter]

That was an interesting read and a good list at the end there.  It piques my curiosity a bit though.  The natural disasters list is fairly low here it seems.  There is the potential for tornadoes as we've had some smaller ones over the years.  Major fires or earthquakes I suppose.  What types of scenarios around here could knock out water, power, etc. for more than 2-3 days?  When the topic of SHTF comes up, what are the most plausible causes?

[WTF]

I think the most possible problems we could face here is

1. Earthquake from the Yellowstone Super Volcano caldera

2. Lucky Peak Damm failure due to the above

3. The YellowStone Super Volcano blowing up, if this happen's
I doubt there is anything we can do. as it would take out 1/3 of the USA. so running/driving away would be pointless, Unless you had a super sonic Jet fueled and ready to go on a moments notice.

[Spiff]

We've based our disaster recovery around two possibilities here at work. Fire is #1, and of course it's only local to a particular building, and a distant #2 would be flooding caused by the failure of the dams. Earthquakes and tornadoes (especially tornadoes) in this area are deemed a distant #3.

These are the scenarios that we see as being able to knock out a building.