Topic: Georgia Russia War

[WTF]

I've been watching and keeping a Keen interest in the Georgian and Russian war that broke out a few days ago, when it first broke out friday I was dicussing this with a few freinds on how it could impact us and possibly lead to WWIII, Since Georgia has supported the USA in the Iraqi War. Russia has not supported the Iraqi War.

Now Georgia is expecting the USA to step up and help defend them as a Soverneign nation.
 
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/11/russian-aggression/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/opinion/11kristol.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin

So if the USA steps up to help defend Georgia agiasnt Russia's aggresion, this will most likely draw us into a full out war with Russia, somehow I feel we are just days and hours away from a full war with russia right now.

Might be wise to start stocking up on more supplies, as Russia ain't gonna mess around and start lobbing some serious shit our way. (EMP? Nuke?)

[Jeff]

It does seem like it could get bad fast.  There have been quite a few posts over on Time Bomb 2000 and there do seem like there are some hooks and we may be there already.  I never knew that the Israelis were supporting Georgia with US weapons.  I don't believe they did that without our knowledge and approval.

[NGO]

With Ukraine now getting involved, in possible denying Russian a return trip to their port this is going to get real ugly real fast.

That and  Russian has now expanded the invasion pass South Ossetia into Georgia proper.

Also their is one report of Russia capturing a US solider and that he has been taken back to Russia for questioning.

This about oil, the second largest pipe line in the world is in Georgia. Plus a major port that feed into and out of the Black Sea is in Georgia, which the Russia have now cut off. This is affecting other countires now.

Not good, not good at all. Need to get more prep work done and quickly!

[bourneshooter]

As a Christian, this conflict is of extremely special interest to me. It involves, Russia, Iran, and Israel. All 3 countries are involved in major last days prophecy.

[Jeff]

I have heard a report that a US adviser has been captured.  Speculation I also heard is that he may have been Israeli or a mercenary.  I also heard that it's just Russian propaganda.  Right now there's no hard data on it.

[Spiff]

Seems this is a counter point to the Washington Times opinion, the guy is not an American so he is writing leaves a bit to be desired at times.:

Author don't command facts.
1. Russia was internationally recognized peacekeeper. So it had right to maintain military presence in S. Ossetia.
2. until 2002 any person in post-USSR can claim Russian citizenship including S.Ossetia. While Russia clearly welcomed S.Ossetia to obtain passports it was not something unusual.
3. Georgia started this campaign overrunning Russian peacekeeper (killing 15-30).
4. Georgia were using heavy weapons against city (artillery and rocket) killing ~ 1400 civilians. Very strange way to encourage people to comeback under Georgia rule.
5. Russia has clear aim to demolish Georgia military capability.
Killing 1400 people in 8 hours... May be it is not ethnic cleansing but it not a right way to conduct war in city.
6. Nobody needs neither Georgia nor Ossetia. They both are extrimly poor.
US has every reason to balance russian interests in Caucasian region. But Russia has every reason to counterbalance. Looks both don't care about Georgia. So does Georgia president who provoked Russian retaliation.

[NGO]

Bush is going to talk about Georgia in afew minutes.
This just came across the wires...

August 11, 2008, 19:41 US sends more arms to Georgia – Israeli media

The United States is sending fresh supplies of weapons to Georgia from its base in the Jordanian port of Aqabah. That’s according to the Israeli newspaper – Maariv. The paper says the US began flying weapons from the transport hub on Saturday.

According to Maariv, the US is hiring Russian-made freight planes belonging to UTI Worldwide Inc. to transport arms and ammunition to Georgia. The paper says the Pentagon is redirecting supplies to Tbilisi that were earmarked for Iraq.

The Aqabah terminal is used by the US to supply troops in Iraq. The American military relies on the hub mainly because it’s safer to use Aqabah than Iraq’s own ports in the Persian Gulf.

Georgia stocks a wide range of weapons from many sources. This is a strategic move in case Russia were to block off the channels through which it gets its military supplies.



Maybe we have picked to honor our promises...

[Spiff]

-->Snipped some of NGO's post<---


Maybe we have picked to honor our promises...

Did we promise to come to Georgia's aid if they were attacked? 'Cause if we are promising to help them against attack, there's only one direction that attack is going to come from. I doubt that Turkey is going to attack them. I find it difficult to believe that we would paint ourselves into a corner when it comes to fighting Russia.

Or did we just promise material aid?

[NGO]

We have been bringing them along for the last couple of years.

Training ( Just had 1000 of our troops their last week doing some training)

equipment ( We were talking about putting defensive missle in their country.)

Modernize the military to get them into NATO. ( I think they were up for vote within the month)

Israel has been selling them our equipment for the last couple of years.

So for all purposes they were doing everything we asked to come into the NATO and western fold.

[NGO]

Well,  Bush said squat!

I voted for him twice, put feet to the ground for him and believed in his call to do something.

Now I am disappointed with him more and more everyday!

Bush said bull**** political speak and offered no "or else" because we can not face the threat of a cut off of Russian oil, platinum, gold, silver, titanium, molybdenum, uranium, etc.

We are so screwed.

[NGO]

Looks like Russia has taken our inaction as being given the green light to go all the way.



Georgia 'overrun' by Russian troops as full-scale ground invasion begins


By Daily Mail Reporter


Gordon Brown urges Moscow to order a ceasefire
Putin lashes out at the U.S. for 'helping Georgia'
Georgia 'restarts shelling' after ceasefire call ignore
Refugee crisis as 40,000 flee
Georgian officials tonight claimed the country had been 'overrun' by Russian troops after a full-scale ground invasion.
Amid reports that Moscow forces had taken the town of Gori - and were marching on the capital Tsblisi - Georgian soldiers appeared to be in full retreat.
Troops were apparently in complete chaos as a full-scale rout pushed them back through the countryside.

Meanwhile, the civilian crisis intensified with thousands of refugees fleeing the seemingly unstoppable advance of the Russian army.

Around 9,000 soldiers and 350 tanks had been massing at a base in the border region of Abkhazia throughout the day.
But the huge force has now moved into Georgia proper, demolishing hopes of a rapid solution to an increasingly bitter conflict.
The invasion comes as Gordon Brown urges Russia to call a ceasefire.
The Prime Minister warned Russia there was 'no justification' for its military action in Georgia.

Mr Brown issued a strongly-worded statement after Georgia backed an EU peace plan for the breakaway province of South Ossetia amid continued fighting.
'There is no justification for continued Russian military action in Georgia, which threatens the stability of the entire region and risks a humanitarian catastrophe,' he said.
'There is an immediate and pressing need to end the fighting and disengage all military forces in South Ossetia.

'The Georgian government has offered a ceasefire, which I urge the Russians to reciprocate without delay.'

Meanwhile, intense shelling continued in the breakaway region of South Ossetia where hostilities broke out last Friday.
There were also conflicting reports that Russian troops had overrun the city of Gori while Georgian forces were concentrating on holding Mtskheta, 15 miles from the capital.

Earlier in the day, Russian premier Vladimir Putin raised the stakes over the conflict by lashing out at the U.S. as the fighting continued to escalate in the region.

The Russian prime minister rejected calls from Georgia for a ceasefire and declared that his country would pursue its mission to its 'logical conclusion'.
A day after a face-to-face meeting with President George W. Bush in Beijing who expressed 'grave concern', Mr Putin accused the U.S. of siding with Georgia by ferrying Georgian troops from Iraq to the battle zone.


'It is a shame that some of our partners are not helping us but, essentially, are hindering us,' said Mr Putin. 'The very scale of this cynicism is astonishing.'

Russian Defence ministry spokeswoman Nana Intskerveli confirmed tanks had seized a Georgian military base in the western town of Senaki.
The statement indicated Russian troops had entered the region from a second rebel province of Abkhazia, where troops have been massing since the weekend.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...on-begins.html

[NGO]

Sudetenland 1938 !



Those that fail to learn from history are bound to repeat it!



 

[Norton1]

You cannot lose with a President than says, "Well he looked honest."

Well maybe a little bit - - - - 

[Spiff]

Sudetenland 1938 !


Those that fail to learn from history are bound to repeat it!

 

Damn, NGO, let's hope your off on your analogy!!

[NGO]

Damn, NGO, let's hope your off on your analogy!!

Agreed, but I like history and we just studied WWI and the depression period with our oldest daughter. (We homeschool so our study is a little more detailed than what I was taught in public school.)

The similarities are disconcerting to say the least.

[NGO]

From Times Online
August 11, 2008

Diplomats warn conflict could scupper Georgia's Nato membership bid

Michael Evans, Defence Editor
www.timesonline.co.uk


The conflict in Georgia could end Georgia's ambitions for quick Nato membership, alliance diplomats conceded today.

Nato countries are expected to be even more strongly divided over whether to invite Georgia to start the process for joining the alliance as a result of the fighting with Russia over the secessionist region of South Ossetia.

Alliance foreign ministers are due to meet in December to discuss a “membership action plan” for Georgia and Ukraine, setting both countries on the road to Nato.

However, British officials said the conflict between Georgian and Russian troops in South Ossetia “had thrown everything up in the air”.

Some member nations, such as the United States, Poland and Romania, could become even more bullish about the importance of drawing Georgia into the alliance, while others, including Germany and France, might want to delay the process, fearing the consequences for relations with Moscow, the diplomats said.

While no country was predicting how it will go in December, the new members, including Poland and Romania, made it clear today that nothing had happened to alter their view that Georgia should be able to join the alliance for the sake of stability in the region around the Black Sea.

Alliance diplomatic sources pointed out that even if the foreign ministers in December decided to approve the membership action plan for Georgia, it would not lead to membership within the short term. “Sometimes it can take nine or ten years for the process to be completed,” one diplomat said.

During that period, Georgia would not be in a position to oblige Nato members to come to its aid in the event of an attack on its territorial integrity. The wording of the Washington Treaty that covers all actions taken by Nato nations states clearly that only full members are entitled to call for help under Article 5 under which each country pledges to go to the assistance of a fellow member under attack.

Nato reacted today to the pleadings of Georgian people, quoted in The Times yesterday, who questioned what the alliance was doing to support them against the Russians.

Nato officials said that the alliance did not have a mandate to intervene in the Caucasus region although every effort was being made by Nato to support those trying to persuade Russia to agree to a ceasefire.

Britain which did not publicly back President George Bush at the Nato summit in Bucharest in April when he urged the alliance to offer membership to Georgia, indicated that it would support the membership action plan when the foreign ministers discuss it in December.

“Everyone recognises that Russia has a part to play in the world but we have to make it plain that there will be consequences for what the Russians have been doing," one official said.

Moscow was clearly trying to put off Nato from inviting Georgia into the organisation by underlining how unstable the country was, diplomatic sources said.

Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, Nato Secretary-General, accused Russia of using excessive force and violating Georgia’s territory after Russian bombing continued near the Georgian capital of Tblisi.

A spokeswoman said he was seriously concerned about “the disproportionate use of force by the Russians and the lack of respect for the territorial integrity of Georgia”.

Ekaterine Tkeshelashvili, the Georgian Foreign Minister, will meet Nato ambassadors in Brussels tomorrow to discuss the crisis. European Union foreign ministers will hold an emergency meeting on Wednesday and will hear a report from Bernard Kouchner, the French Foreign Minister, who is on a peace mission to Georgia. France currently holds the EU presidency.

Gordon Brown, on holiday in Southwold, has been in contact with President Sarkozy, the French leader, and with Ban Ki-Moon, the United Nations Secretary-General. The Prime Minister said there was “no justification for continued Russian military action in Georgia”. He spoke of Russia’s “aggression”.

[pv74]

Might be wise to start stocking up on more supplies, as Russia ain't gonna mess around and start lobbing some serious shit our way. (EMP? Nuke?)

If the Ruskies nuke us...we will nuke them back to the stone age....and everything will be over.

It's called mutually assured destruction....Russia is not that stupid.

[pv74]

We air lifted the Georgian troops out of Iraq...
We are flying in "humanitarian" aid....

This pisses Putin off....a lot

Well,  Bush said squat!

I voted for him twice, put feet to the ground for him and believed in his call to do something.

Now I am disappointed with him more and more everyday!

Bush said bull**** political speak and offered no "or else" because we can not face the threat of a cut off of Russian oil, platinum, gold, silver, titanium, molybdenum, uranium, etc.

We are so screwed.

[NGO]

Putin is scared and Bush's words have had no effect....

Russia has broken the crease fire truce and is moving towards the capitial.

Turkey just sided with Russia also.

Got preps?   hope I have time to leave town before this place starts to glow.




pv74, race you to heaven, see who gets there first!

[Hubby_MC]

my wife and I (both ex army) discussed this last night. My sons overheard the discussion (they are young marines) and we had a fascinating conversation. They had no concept of "russia" or the soviet union for that matter as scary characters on the world stage. I have for many years wondered what would come of the former soviet superpower. The dissipation of their power has continued and you can only imagine what its like for those people. A former superpower brought to its knees. It is not surprise that the country longs for the days of power.

My spouse and I are guilty of proliferating the prejudices of the cold war. We often repeat the "commie" mantra we lived with for so long. It was a shock to hear our children speak as though they have always been our friends. "how can this be?"

A good reminder for all of us. The United States remains the only real world superpower and every kid on the block will always pick a fight until someone manages to beat up the big guy.

[Spiff]

If the Ruskies nuke us...we will nuke them back to the stone age....and everything will be over.

It's called mutually assured destruction....Russia is not that stupid.

+1, Russia is not that stupid, at least not over Georgia. We probably won't be swapping spit with them in the shower after this though........

[Miss_me]

wow... when i first heard of the invasion i got brought right back to the whole (american) Civil War... the south wanted recession the north didn't hmmmmm seem familiar... idk what to think though... and it seems to me well nvm i won't go there...

[WTF]

my wife and I (both ex army) discussed this last night. My sons overheard the discussion (they are young marines) and we had a fascinating conversation. They had no concept of "russia" or the soviet union for that matter as scary characters on the world stage. I have for many years wondered what would come of the former soviet superpower. The dissipation of their power has continued and you can only imagine what its like for those people. A former superpower brought to its knees. It is not surprise that the country longs for the days of power.

My spouse and I are guilty of proliferating the prejudices of the cold war. We often repeat the "commie" mantra we lived with for so long. It was a shock to hear our children speak as though they have always been our friends. "how can this be?"

A good reminder for all of us. The United States remains the only real world superpower and every kid on the block will always pick a fight until someone manages to beat up the big guy.

In recent years Russia has been beefing up and building up it's military machine to get back in the Game and become a super power, and has recently been kicking sand in our eyes as well as others recently. they are looking to pick a fight.

[9Shooter]

This is crazy.  A female reporter in Georgia gets shot in the arm while on air, puts on a vest and keeps going.  Pretty dang tough.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/14/vo.gerogia.journalist.shot.gerogiastatetv

[WTF]

This is crazy.  A female reporter in Georgia gets shot in the arm while on air, puts on a vest and keeps going.  Pretty dang tough.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/14/vo.gerogia.journalist.shot.gerogiastatetv

She must be a Scot, it's only a Flesh wound!

civilian pics now surfacing of the Georgia war, may not be SFW

http://www.navoine.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=551#551

[WTF]

pretty gnarly chest wound, note the entrance or exit of the bullet by the guys throat

[WTF]

more graphic pics of the war.

http://milkavkaz.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=12634#12634

[NGO]

Another site with lots of pics

http://milkavkaz.net/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0