Topic: Reloading recipe help

[e11charlie]

Ok so taxes came in I now have everything I need. Got the press and primer seater (thanks Broncovan). Dies and brass (thanks Jmack). Bullets, powder, and primers (thanks Mike). I picked up a Lyman bible. Only problem is it does not have a recipe for the MK318. They have 60 grain then 63 but not 62. I have been looking but can not find one. I am set up and ready to get going. Any help would be great. I just need a starting point, and maybe someone with a chrono. One thing I have noticed is the MK318 bullet is longer than most I have seen. I know that this will come into play as it will increase pressures in the case as it will seat deeper.

[EDGE]

Do you have any factory MK318 ammo?  If so, pull the bullet and see how much powder is in there.

If not, I would suggest using the 63gr loads in the book and maybe bumping it down by 10% to start out, then work your way up from there.

What powder are you using?

Barnes bullets has the following data:

62gr TSX

TAC Powder:  Min 22.5 gr/2787 fps   to    Max. 24.5 gr/3055 fps
Varget Powder:  Min 23.5 gr/2807 fps   to    Max. 25.5 gr/3021 fps

[J Mack]

Bullets, powder, and primers (thanks Mike). MK318 bullet is longer than most I have seen. I know that this will come into play as it will increase pressures in the case as it will seat deeper.

If you are using the WCC 884 powder from Mike I believe I started at 25gr when I loaded some MK 318 bullets for a test and my plan was to work up from there.
I read of guys using M855 load data when loading the Mk318 bullet and WCC 884 powder but please do your own research before you load 27gr of powder.
 
M855 Ball load Data:   
61.8 gr +/- 1.5 gr; Vel 3020+/- 40 @15' SD<= 40
Pressure 58.7 Kpsi (piezo), or Avg + 3 SD <=64.7 Kpsi
Port pressure Avg +5 SD >=15.3 Kpsi
Propellant WCC844 27 gr or WCR845 27 gr

[Nealio]

Do you have any factory MK318 ammo?  If so, pull the bullet and see how much powder is in there.

I would not suggest this.  Unless you are totally sure you KNOW what kind of powder is in there and you are totally sure you HAVE that kind of powder this won't provide you with any useful data.

e11charlie:
You are better off using 63gr load data and working your load up from the minimum or doing like JMack suggested and use the M855 data as a starting point.
Check for pressure signs (flattening out of the primers) along the way.

[XDMHMMWV]

If you are using Winchester powder, IMR or Hodgedon, you can go to their site and see if they have a load listed.

[RGinIdaho]

Speer has data for their 62fmj

asterisk (*) on the listed powder,CCI 450 Magnum primer
no asterisk, CCI 400 primer

that's what speer used for primers...

AA2520* - 24.5 / 2875 fps 26.5 MAX (compressed charge) / 3025 fps
AA2460* - 22.5 / 2636 fps 24.5 MAX / 2966 fps
Viht. N133 - 21.0 / 2646 fps 23.0 MAX / 2948 fps
AA2230 - 22.0 / 2642 fps 24.0 MAX / 2975 fps
IMR4895 - 22.5 / 2548 fps 24.5 MAX (compressed) / 2940 fps
IMR 4064 - 23.5 / 2661 fps 25.5 MAX (compressed) 2942 fps
WW748* - 23.5 / 2556 fps 25.5 MAX / 2945 fps
H335* - 23.0 / 2625 fps 25.0 MAX / 2946 fps
H4895 - 22.0 / 2539 fps 24.0 MAX / 2873 fps
Viht. N135 - 22.0 / 2590 fps 24.0 MAX / 2889 fps
AA2015BR - 20.5 / 2509 fps 22.5 MAX / 2973 fps
Re15 - 23.0 / 2549 fps 25.0 MAX (compressed) 2955 fps
IMR 4320 - 23.5 / 2568 fps 25.5 MAX (compressed) 2867 fps
BL-C(2)* - 23.0 / 2476 fps 25.0 MAX 2907 fps
IMR3031 - 21.5 / 2466 fps 23.5 MAX (compressed) 2913 fps

Start low, work up.

Bad idea to measure powder in an existing round then guess about the type and duplicate.

Oh, and remember, primers are considered by the bullet and powder outfits as the poorest indicator of pressure...

[J Mack]

This is the load Data for a Barnes copper bullet very similar to your MK318.
 
Bullet Weight:  62 gr                                Case Trim Length:  1.750"                 S.D.         0.177
Bullet Style: TSX BT                                               Primer:  WSR                     B.C.         0.287

COAL: 2.250"

Minimum                                          Maximum
Charge         Velocity         Charge         Velocity              Load
Powder           (grains)            (fps)            (grains)           (fps)           Density
(%)
TAC                   22.5               2787               24.5              3055          88
       
 Varget                23.5               2807               25.5              3021         102

My recommendation is to start with some off the shelf 55gr bullets and known powder for the .223 to start. In fact you can bring me the components you have and I will give you an equal amount of Hornady 55gr FMJ’s and Win 748 or Tac powder.
         

[Nealio]

Oh, and remember, primers are considered by the bullet and powder outfits as the poorest indicator of pressure...

What do they suggest as a good indicator of pressure?

[fastfire]

Flat primers out to the edge.

[RGinIdaho]

What do they suggest as a good indicator of pressure?

Case head expansion.

[e11charlie]

Ok I have never been very good at math.  The starting charge in the Lyman manual is 23gr.  How do I find 10%?  Is that 10% of the lowest charge or 10% of the maximum?  Would it be 20.7 starting charge?  then work up from there?  If so what percentage do I work up? 1 to 2% at a time?  Going to pick up a trickler today then I will load my first loads.  Hopefully in time to get over to Impact to test fire.  Anyone have a chrono in Boise I can borrow real quick later this afternoon? 

[Nomad]

 Every barrel has its own signature the idea is to find the most accurate spot or as some say "the sweet spot". There are many good powders that have been developed for the .223 and 5.56 bullets.
 H335, Tac, Varget, 8208, RL-15, H322 H & IMR 4895 to name a few. Load up three of each from
the starting point to the max load, set bullet at factory recommendation then start shooting at 100yds.
 Once you find your sweet spot at a hundred shoot at 300 to see if you are still getting a good group.
 You have what you need.
 If at 300 your group is not with in the same MOA then back to the reloading bench......
 With the first 4 powders you should have found a great group.
 Prepping your brass is always a good idea flash holes and primer pockets at least.
   

[2big2fail]

Ok I have never been very good at math.  The starting charge in the Lyman manual is 23gr.  How do I find 10%?  Is that 10% of the lowest charge or 10% of the maximum?  Would it be 20.7 starting charge?  then work up from there?  If so what percentage do I work up? 1 to 2% at a time?  Going to pick up a trickler today then I will load my first loads.  Hopefully in time to get over to Impact to test fire.  Anyone have a chrono in Boise I can borrow real quick later this afternoon? 

My experience has been to start from the minimum.  When loading a new recipe I always start at least 10% under min and progress (with rifle) at 1/2 grain increments.  I'll load 10 rounds at each increment.  And definitely chrono those increases.  Keep notes from the book that list the (suggested) velocities at their powder charges and compare as you work up.  You'll probably be surprised to see you're velocity and the book's will vary somewhat, the book data is usually tested with bolt action rifles and that means longer barrels too.  In my Nosler vol. 6, the rifle used for their data is mentioned for the handloader to take into account.  Good luck!

[e11charlie]

So I loaded 9 at 10% below minimum. Then two more batches at .5 increase increments. Off to impact to see how it goes.

[e11charlie]

Well they went bang.  So in the picture the lowest load is on the right followed by the second and third.  The one of the left was at 21.7gr and seemed to be getting less accurate.  The middle is at 21.2 and the right one is at 20.7.  I know this is only at 25 yards.  The real test will be at 100 meters.  No signs of excessive pressure.  Going to have to chrono them.  So to recap 1/9 twist 62gr bullet.  Best group I have ever had even at 25 yards.  Thoughts?

[broncovan]

They went bang, that's always a good start.  They're on paper, another good sign.

In an situation like yours where you're starting a new load, I usually start in the lower middle of the low and high charge and work up in .2 grain increments for 4-5 batches of 5 and test.

So Hodgdon's site calls for a 63gr bullet and h4895 the low end is 23.5gr and high of 25.5gr.

I would start at 24.2, 24.4, 24.6, 24.8, and 25.  Shoot your first group, police up your brass, inspect for obvious signs of overpressure, keep seperated and marked(plastic baggies work well for me) try the next load.  When I get home, I do another more thorough inspection of the brass, look at the measurements and if I don't like what I see, I start over at the best load and work my way up in odd increments.

So if 24.6 was my best group, I'll load 24.5, 24.7, 24.9, 25.1, and probably 25.3 in this example.  Then re-do the the test.

[J Mack]

Well they went bang.  So in the picture the lowest load is on the right followed by the second and third.  The one of the left was at 21.7gr and seemed to be getting less accurate.  The middle is at 21.2 and the right one is at 20.7.  I know this is only at 25 yards.  The real test will be at 100 meters.  No signs of excessive pressure.  Going to have to chrono them.  So to recap 1/9 twist 62gr bullet.  Best group I have ever had even at 25 yards.  Thoughts?

Crono your loads first and try to get them into the 3000 FPS range with a 1/9 16" barrel.
Don’t base your accuracy node on 25 yard groups you need to shoot some groups at 100 yards to give you any useful information.

You are going to have to load that MK318 bullet warm to hot in your 1/9 twist barrel.


The bullet is clearly designed to preform in a 1/7 twist barrel.

[donm]

JMack, where did you get those charts? I like them.

[J Mack]

JMack, where did you get those charts? I like them.

I borrowed those charts but they were made in Shooting Lab.
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/index.htm


This is a free download to calculate spin rates and stability.
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/millerformula.xls

[donm]

Thanks, I will check them out.

[e11charlie]

Well made a few more batches. Took it to the range. Looks like I got the best accuracy at 23.2gr.  Shot group started to come apart at 23.4gr. Really need to chrono them. Does impact rent a chrono?

[Momma Sheepdog]

cold weather testing is a good way the destroy things when its 90 degress out side. 25 and 100 are  good for zeroing, but what happens at 2 or 300 + ? remember I dont shit about this stuff Sheepdog 1 Actual