Topic: Dropping The Slide On An Empty Chamber

[TrooperBrian]

I was clearing a Kimber 1911 the other day, I always lock it back, strip the mag, drop the slide, press check, and drop the hammer. And a man gave me an earful on how dropping the slide even once, can destroy the $1500 pistol I was holding.

After looking into it, reading endless pages of arguments, it seems to be nothing but another myth like extensive barrel break-in. And I've done it probably thousands of times with no issue. But I'm interested to hear the thoughts of the old and wise.

[blown_primer]

In a conversation with an IPSC Open Class Grand Master (a legitimate GM; not a reverse sandbagger), he explained that the shock of repeated slamming can damage the slide stop pin, causing it to potentially fracture, and even if the slide stop is properly hardened in excess of the steel around the slide stop pin holes (in the frame), the holes may become misshapen due to the battering.  Since I was only an IPSC A class shooter, I listened to him, and still believe he makes some good points.

[zona5101]

i have heard that also and only on 1911, not on other designs. Even on non 1911s, I rarely, if ever, just drop the slide release and let 'er fly if the gun is emtpy.  I'm grabbing the top of the slide, pushing it back and assisting it forward. Same with my truck door or just about anything I want to take care of. So 3 sentences to say I don't know if its true but I generally follow that principle on empty guns.

[RGinIdaho]

i have heard that also and only on 1911, not on other designs. Even on non 1911s, I rarely, if ever, just drop the slide release and let 'er fly if the gun is emtpy.  I'm grabbing the top of the slide, pushing it back and assisting it forward. Same with my truck door or just about anything I want to take care of. So 3 sentences to say I don't know if its true but I generally follow that principle on empty guns.

+1
Why beat the snot out of it if you don't have to.

[J Mack]

I’m in the process of building a 2011 for my wife and the slide stop pin was one of the things I researched, this is what I believe right or wrong about dropping the slide in regards to the slide stop pin.
Not all slide stop pins are created equal and there are definitely some pins I would "NOT" drop the slide on and others that I would not think twice about it. So in my way of thinking this is a blanket solution to an isolated problem so when in doubt "DON'T DO IT". 



Partially machined investment castings "Ed Brown Hardcore slidestops"
Said to be good but not my first choice.



Colt. Machined from a forging.  These are known to break off the internal lobe and quite possibly the reason we hear not to drop the slide. Sorry Dutch.



Manufactured from bar stock, milled to specific dimensions then through harden.
There several manufactures that make their pins this way and the one I chose to put in my own pistols. As I said with the assumption of common sense I would not think twice about dropping the slide but I also wouldn’t continually do it just to prove a point.





MIM manufactured slide stop pins and again most likely why we hear about dropping the slide breaking the slide stop pin. Note the identical voids on the shafts and the MIM ejection pin marks.

[popsgunner]

+1 for all above, and as I am old and maybe wise(maybe) might I add the guns are designed to scoop a round off the magazine and inject it into the pipe, this is done at a pace a bit slower than lettin the slide slam home.
I agree , most of the time guns with cast or mim or otherwise not great parts will get beat up sooner, high quality guns will last longer. The other reason not to slam them is... Top quality guns have very great trigger sear relationships and the slamming of the slide without taking a round with it will with time ruin fine action work( trigger /sear).
Pops

[Scarecrow]

I heard this when I was working at the range, but never gave much credence to it.  I always figured it was more a respect thing, Jmacks post has enlightened me.

[AR10ER]

From what I have been told in the past, is that it is not good on the sear, on a highly tuned 1911.

[ekuo]

+1
Why beat the snot out of it if you don't have to.

+2  Would you dry-fire a bow? 

[luckypunk]

they are 100 year old relics. Fragile, best to handle them with white cotton gloves on

[luckypunk]

LOL, just kidding.  I imagine if you were to do that to a race pistol belonging to one of the comp shooters, you'd be lucky to leave the area without a sore butt from them putting a foot up it.  Bad form if nothing else. 

BTW.  Cabelas has a WWI Springfield I played with today.  totally awesome, tight slide, crisp but heavy trigger.  I can almost feel the slide bite....... but If Im gonna spend 2K, it'd be on a Colt

[agunforeachhand]

they are 100 year old relics. Fragile, best to handle them with white cotton gloves on
[/quote.     


Lmao 

[MtGoat]

Manufactured from bar stock, milled to specific dimensions then through harden.
There several manufactures that make their pins this way and the one I chose to put in my own pistols. As I said with the assumption of common sense I would not think twice about dropping the slide but I also wouldn’t continually do it just to prove a point.

Who specifically makes milled and hardened slides stops?
Might be worth the time to replace the MIM stops that come on Kimbers?

Pat

[J Mack]

Who specifically makes milled and hardened slides stops?
Pat

The two in the photos are EGW and 10-8. I also have a SVI not pictured.

http://www.egwguns.com/slide-stops/egw-hd-slide-stop-.200/
http://www.10-8performance.com/products/Slide-Stop%2C-Gen-2.html
http://www.sviguns.com/1101.php?indx=21
And Wilson Combat offers a Bullet Proof line that's machined from bar stock.
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Slide-Release-45-ACP-Bullet-Proof-Blue/productinfo/414B/

[fatherpage]

This discussion caused me to re-read the operators manual for a new Kimber. 

"4.  Release slide forward onto the empty chamber
by pulling slide fully rearward and releasing or
by manually rotating the slide stop downward
past the slide stop notch. Repeatedly allowing
the slide to slam closed on an empty
chamber will cause premature wear and
loosening on a match grade 1911 such as the
Kimber. Ease the slide closed.
5. Pull the trigger allowing the hammer to fall
forward on the empty chamber. Do not
“ease” the hammer down by holding or
blocking it. Doing so may mar the sear tip
which will result in a substandard trigger pull.


What I found interesting was comment #5 regarding allowing the hammer to fall by pulling the trigger.  This was not something I would have thought of.

Thanks Pops and all for reminding me the read the instructions.

[RGinIdaho]

What I found interesting was comment #5 regarding allowing the hammer to fall by pulling the trigger.  This was not something I would have thought of.

It's also a common cause of ND's.

[e11charlie]

Ok so I am confused. You are not to just let the slide just slam forward, you are supposed to ease it forward? Doesn't the slide slam forward everytime when you fire it? Maybe I am not seeing the point.  Is the concern with damage to the slide slamming forward or is the concern with causing premature wear on the slide release?

[RGinIdaho]

During normal firing, the stripping of the round from the magazine buffers the impact on the slide stop, barrel locking lugs top/bottom and barrel hood/breachface contact area. When empty, the parts hammer against each other un-buffered.

[e11charlie]

During normal firing, the stripping of the round from the magazine buffers the impact on the slide stop, barrel locking lugs top/bottom and barrel hood/breachface contact area. When empty, the parts hammer against each other un-buffered.

Got it. Grassyass.

[dutch1911]

Well.. it is a Kimber...
Really though there's a lot of jarring on the sear when u allow the slide to slam forward. It won't damage it all at once but it can have negative effects on your trigger over time. That said... If you slammed the slide forward on mine in front of me... You'd know about it.
J Mack... Tsk Tsk Tsk... 

[RGinIdaho]

Dutch and Pops mentioned damage to the sear. That brings back another odd thing I was taught years ago. It was OK to drop the slide on a 1911 as long as the trigger was held to the rear. This was supposed to help maintain the trigger job.

May or may not be true. Probably has something to do with the MIM sear and disconnector Colt began using in the 1970's.

[popsgunner]

RG I suppose you are right, it would keep the sear away from the hammer but.....good training teaches us to NOT TOUCH THE F>>>IN TRIGGER until we are on target, so, LOL.
Habits, habits.
Pops

[RGinIdaho]

RG I suppose you are right, it would keep the sear away from the hammer but.....good training teaches us to NOT TOUCH THE F>>>IN TRIGGER until we are on target, so, LOL.
Habits, habits.
Pops

Just telling something that I was once taught about 1911's when I first caught the 1911 bug.

  Now, this part is the KEY to the entire thread.
The OP was talking an unload pistol in a shop. The entire thread is about damaging a pistol by dropping the slide on and EMPTY chamber. That was the context I had in mind when I posted.

Personally, I don't drop the slide on any pistol that is not loaded. Instead of looking really cool, it screams rookie shooter to me. 



Now about that finger on the trigger thing; What about dry fire training, or working on a pistol to clean, diagnose or repair? There are a lot of times we use the trigger on a pistol when we are not on "target".

Muzzle discipline, guns are always loaded and backstop are topics for another thread. Break any one rule and you are good to go. Break 2, not so much...











  Just bustin your balls, POPs. 

[RGinIdaho]

I was clearing a Kimber 1911 the other day, I always lock it back, strip the mag, drop the slide, press check, and drop the hammer.

Sounds like gun shop, empty gun, comfort has crept into your manual of arms...

Just a procedural note:
While pointed at something you don't mind destroying, drop the mag, retract the slide, inspect the chamber(not the opening in the slide), close the slide, drop the hammer while still pointed in a safe direction. Always!

When clearing a weapon, racking the slide then dropping the mag is outside of the normal manual of arms for clearing/checking a magazine fed weapon. Building improper technique creates the potential for an ND. I've witnessed a few that racked the slide, dropped the mag and sent one into the dirt.

Sorry for the drift but as Pops reminds us:

SAFETY FIRST

[popsgunner]

 

[HD-DVD]

+1
Why beat the snot out of it if you don't have to.

Another +1.

Why beat up any machine, why take the chance of added wear and tear? It's just common sense. Over the last 40+ years with any of my firearms I've eased the action closed when there's no round to be chambered. And it certainly hasn't hurt them.

[TrooperBrian]

Sounds like gun shop, empty gun, comfort has crept into your manual of arms...

Just a procedural note:
While pointed at something you don't mind destroying, drop the mag, retract the slide, inspect the chamber(not the opening in the slide), close the slide, drop the hammer while still pointed in a safe direction. Always!

When clearing a weapon, racking the slide then dropping the mag is outside of the normal manual of arms for clearing/checking a magazine fed weapon. Building improper technique creates the potential for an ND. I've witnessed a few that racked the slide, dropped the mag and sent one into the dirt.

Sorry for the drift but as Pops reminds us:

SAFETY FIRST

I suppose this is worth clarifying, I use the empty magazine to lock the slide to the rear before removing the magazine, not a full cycle. Should the magazine and chamber both have been loaded with live ammunition, the rearward lock would have ejected the chambered round.

[Jeff]

What if it doesn't?

[TrooperBrian]

What if it doesn't?

Perhaps I should clarify further. When I say "clearing", I should really say "after clearing". I only do this after I have already cleared the weapon, and I'm getting ready to put it away, after I have personally checked to see if any live ammunition is present. Clear as mud?

[popsgunner]

I thought we all covered this like 18 times, after the gun is clear and double checked it's clear ease the slide forward, point it in a safe direction, down is best and dry fire it. done. now your a pro. 
Pops

[MtGoat]

This reminds me of a discussion I had with Larry on over and under shotguns.  When closing the action hold the lever and ease the bolt closed (just like the slide on a 1911).  The lock-up will last much longer than just slamming it closed. 

Pat

[dutch1911]

You may want to take a closer look at your clearing practices.
Though your current practice will certainly accomplish the task it edges on the brink of deficient training.  Do it the same every time.
With the weapon pointed in a safe direction at all times...
1. Remove the magazine - Stow said magazine.
2. Rack the slide vigorously at least 3 times.  (Why 3 times?  Cuz 2 isn't enough and 5 is too many!)
3. Lock the slide to the rear.
4. Visually and Physically inspect the chamber to ensure an empty gun.

One should consider having specific rules in place at home or at work.  I utilize the same rules I impose on my Officers at the Range and When I'm in the State's Armory.  No live ammo anywhere near when working on a weapon.  If you leave the weapon for a short time... re check the weapon to ensure it's clear.
Tenacity my friend will work out complacency. Complacency gets people shot when they KNEW the weapon was clear.
My wife giggles at me because of my level of demand at sticking to the processes I have in place... but she really does understand.
I'd hate to hear of anyone having to endure the Pain/Embarrassment of a Negligent Discharge.
Take care of that 1911 ... it'll take care of you.

Cheers.

[popsgunner]

I know Dutch, they laugh at me when I rack the slide over and over like I'm doing it to amuse myself ? It is always a training issue. Well said Dutch.
Pops

[motosapiens]

i don't know about y'all, but i fire bullets in my guns, that explode and stuff. I majored in math, and I just calculated that exploding bullets cause more stress on the gun than letting the slide go forward.

But, i'm superstitious, so when i change the oil on my car, I use a torque wrench on the oil filler cap. don't wanna strip it and explodify my engine-thingy. 



(caveat: I intentionally say 'clip' instead of magazine to make the gun nazi's heads explode)

[HD-DVD]

i don't know about y'all, but i fire bullets in my guns, that explode and stuff. I majored in math, and I just calculated that exploding bullets cause more stress on the gun than letting the slide go forward.

But, i'm superstitious, so when i change the oil on my car, I use a torque wrench on the oil filler cap. don't wanna strip it and explodify my engine-thingy.  



(caveat: I intentionally say 'clip' instead of magazine to make the gun nazi's heads explode)

So math says it's ok to beat the crap out of a machine? Guess I didn't get that course at ASU!   (That's a Sun Devil, BTW!  )

[J Mack]

i don't know about y'all, but i fire bullets in my guns, that explode and stuff. I majored in math, and I just calculated that exploding bullets cause more stress on the gun than letting the slide go forward.

Can you share those calculations with us non-math majors?

Caveat: I’m also antagonistic but I elect to use the proper names for magazines/clips ammo/bullets and use my quick wit to make guys who intentionally say 'clip' instead of magazine heads explode.

[JWaddell]

The two in the photos are EGW and 10-8. I also have a SVI not pictured.

http://www.10-8performance.com/products/Slide-Stop%2C-

I have parts from 10-8 on my 1911 and they are awesome. Hilton builds some legit stuff!
Grips, Rear Sight, Flat Trigger[attachment=1]