Author Topic: WROL/SHTF What gun? (Read 762 times)

XDMHMMWV · « **on:** January 09, 2012, 03:49:04 PM »

If the unspeakable ( which we talk about almost everyday now

) where to happen, which arms mentality to you go with?

El cheapo like the Moline and a Hi-Point so as to not make yourself a target like those tacticool mall ninjas?
Bad guy: "Hey he doesn't have any money, I'll go after that guy with the expensive gear."

Or, do you go with your best load out like an AR-15 or Arsenal AK because your life is worth more than a $75 piece of crap gun, and you in invested in your equipment to save your life?
Bad guy: " I don't want to go after him, he probably has gone through the training to know how to use that thing.

I'll pick an easier target."

Or would going around in shabby clothes, a bow with quiver and a machete be better?
Bad guy: " Ha ha, look at that dope. I'll pick on someone who has something of value."

This should be fun

ekuo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 09, 2012, 05:42:58 PM »

First, a dumb question: does WROL mean With Rule of Law?

(I had to Google it)

GrayWolf · « **Reply #2 on:** January 09, 2012, 05:57:05 PM »

Quote from: ekuo on January 09, 2012, 05:42:58 PM

First, a dumb question: does WROL mean With Rule of Law?

(I had to Google it)

Actually, WITHOUT Rule of Law.

ekuo · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2012, 06:07:07 PM »

Ah, copy that. My bad.

Well, one thing I'll say: Unless I can display an overwhelming show of force (read: don't mess with me), I'd probably be somewhat discrete in not showing off anything that somebody else might covet. i.e. you don't walk around downtown late at night with $100 bills hanging out of your pocket, do you?

2big2fail · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2012, 06:38:03 PM »

Same setup one would use for three gun. Plus maybe a nice scoped outfit just for trouble on the horizon. Just remember a couple old military style rifles from big 5 in a glass gun hutch somewhere close to the front door. They'll usually grab the first thing they see, and remember to load a couple of rounds "set to destruct" that goes with them. The handloaders out there know what I mean.

XDMHMMWV · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2012, 07:36:56 PM »

Quote from: 2big2fail on January 09, 2012, 06:38:03 PM

They'll usually grab the first thing they see, and remember to load a couple of rounds "set to destruct" that goes with them. The handloaders out there know what I mean.

H110 for 45acp.......fill it till the primer wants to pop out.
Good loading data

Kind of like a mechanic tightening a bolt to spec. Tighten it till it strips, then back off a quarter turn.

tgibson · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2012, 07:57:53 PM »

McMillan .308 w/Gemtech Sandstorm TI supressor in the eberlestock. Glock .35 w/Surefire also in Backpack. 9mm STI in retention holster on hip. Wraith slung.
Adios,
TG

2big2fail · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2012, 08:03:44 PM »

Quote from: XDMHMMWV on January 09, 2012, 07:36:56 PM

H110 for 45acp.......fill it till the primer wants to pop out.

Or, a 303 Brittish packed with H110 fitted with a .338 bullet of the heaviest variety and magnum primer, at the same time, a circular arc weld just ahead of the lands....or something.

XDMHMMWV · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2012, 08:42:51 PM »

Lets go back to how we are going to present ourselves, instead of reloading data.

Good article on a first hand account of SHTFhttp://www.survival-spot.com/survival-blog/argentina-collapse/

2big2fail · « **Reply #9 on:** January 09, 2012, 10:38:25 PM »

Quote from: XDMHMMWV on January 09, 2012, 08:42:51 PM

Lets go back to how we are going to present ourselves, instead of reloading data.

Good article on a first hand account of SHTFhttp://www.survival-spot.com/survival-blog/argentina-collapse/

Damn good resource you've found there. Realtime experience, and the similarities are....well....let's say-plausable.
In all seriousness, no less than a very reliable sidearm (IMO Sig) for each member of the clan/ or family. Definitely, dependability is paramount due to the real threat of hostiles and frequency of armed defense. On that, combined with an objective of keeping on the down low, I'd have to go with the M4 platform .223 but in a shortened barrel for concealment leaving room for a suppressor. Then, paint the thing as FUBAR as all hell with a little Hollywood style aging and makeup in case it is seen. Do have a bandolier of custom hollow point ammo. (Try the 62grain xm318 or Nosler 68grain ballistic tip). And of course, have a plan.
I would presume that, that image would reflect the owner had nothing, nothing but experience. Thus making him a high risk, low benefit target.
And yes, (as opinions are often reflected) I am speaking from my own cache'. But, it was built that way with this scenario in mind reaching way back, and ever expanding.
P.S. How many layers of foil around a laptop does it take?

luvmy45 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2012, 11:10:34 PM »

How much of our TEOTWAWKI scenario's are based on what we have seen in the movies and on network tv, rather than reality?

Scarecrow · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2012, 11:39:12 PM »

What's a Moline?

2big2fail · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2012, 05:44:42 AM »

Quote from: luvmy45 on January 09, 2012, 11:10:34 PM

How much of our TEOTWAWKI scenario's are based on what we have seen in the movies and on network tv, rather than reality?

It's not the "total" end of the world, just major change in rapid succession. And it's based on real history. The names have changed but the actions are all the same. If only the Tibettans, Jews, Chinese, and Stalin era Russians, to name a few, could have been able to prepare.

J Mack · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2012, 08:15:25 AM »

Instead of worrying about which battle rifle makes your butt look big I would be rethinking your plan of dancing around the unfriendly streets in broad daylight with your mall ninja attire!

As for the rifle, these guys think the AK is king and have some valid points.
TOP 10:Combat Rifles - AK 47 (NO.1)

I think I like this one.

PWS MK2 Series Promo Video

tgibson · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2012, 08:24:23 AM »

I like that one too

Adios
TG

J Mack · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2012, 08:41:55 AM »

Quote from: tgibson on January 10, 2012, 08:24:23 AM

I like that one too

Adios
TG

Checkout the video on YouTube and look for the Bono "mustache" comment.
Who are they were talking about.

tgibson · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2012, 08:49:48 AM »

I commented too. Couldn't resist. I did notice he didn't have anything to say about he shooting though. Explains lot.
Sorry for the thread drift.
Adios
TG

luvmy45 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2012, 09:20:08 AM »

I was thinking about which guns I would want to have, and they have nothing to do with looks, or perceived "value" to anyone.

What I would want would be the following:

Rifle and Pistol in .22 - preferably with a suppressor.

Any battle rifle will do in a common caliber 223/5.56/7.62/308/ what's sks/ak??

Handgun in some sort common caliber, 9mm or .45

Some sort of long range rifle, in a common caliber. 270/308/30-06/7mm mag, etc

My theme is, if it's a gun I can shoot it, if its in a common caliber I can scrounge/trade or make ammo easier than an odd duck caliber. I could do most my small game hunting with a 22, bird/squirril/cats/dogs, etc... and with the suppressor, it doesn't attract attention or scare the other game off.

Just my thinking...

XDMHMMWV · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2012, 10:07:17 AM »

Quote from: 2big2fail on January 10, 2012, 05:44:42 AM

It's not the "total" end of the world, just major change in rapid succession. And it's based on real history. The names have changed but the actions are all the same. If only the Tibettans, Jews, Chinese, and Stalin era Russians, to name a few, could have been able to prepare.

And on the economic side; don't forget the people of the Weimar Republic.
Plus the crap that is going down in Italy. They have their very own fascist leader now.

But, what is the best way to present yourself in an Argentina like scenario?
It seems to be the consensus to go about in full load out.
As far as a vehicle, drive an older one, so as to not draw attention.

tgibson · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2012, 10:13:38 AM »

Quote from: luvmy45 on January 10, 2012, 09:20:08 AM

Rifle and Pistol in .22 - preferably with a suppressor.

My theme is, if it's a gun I can shoot it, if its in a common caliber I can scrounge/trade or make ammo easier than an odd duck caliber. I could do most my small game hunting with a 22, bird/squirril/cats/dogs, etc... and with the suppressor, it doesn't attract attention or scare the other game off.

Just my thinking...

^^^^^. This. Forgot about the .22.
Adios
TG

J Mack · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2012, 10:41:11 AM »

Quote from: XDMHMMWV on January 10, 2012, 10:07:17 AM

But, what is the best way to present yourself in an Argentina like scenario?
It seems to be the consensus to go about in full load out.
As far as a vehicle, drive an older one, so as to not draw attention.

Are we talking about a total system collapse and how it affects us in Boise ID?
Or is this some made for TV big city Zombie apocalypse video game shit?
If we’re talking reality then most likely the vehicle I own at the time is the one I’ll drive as long as I have fuel.
If we’re talking some make believe shit and I’m the last guy on earth trying to protect myself from the Zombies then I’m cruising the M1A1.

mikedamerell · « **Reply #21 on:** January 10, 2012, 11:16:10 AM »

You intend to tell us that you don't have a M1A1 as your daily driver? Man you really are not prepared are you?

emathey · « **Reply #22 on:** January 10, 2012, 11:49:30 AM »

A T/C encore and a golf bag full of different barrels would be mighty useful.

2big2fail · « **Reply #23 on:** January 10, 2012, 05:18:03 PM »

Luvmy45 hit on it, stay with common calibers, preferably, NATO chambered calibers. Those will always be available.

ekuo · « **Reply #24 on:** January 10, 2012, 05:27:49 PM »

If TEOTWAWKI or whatever happens, I'm grabbing my 3 gun gear and heading to either RK's shop or TG's house depending on which is closest. I'm pretty sure I'll find ammo or covering fire at either place!

Actually, a predesignated BoiseShooters rally point sounds like a good idea. I vote for PRGC.

RGinIdaho · « **Reply #25 on:** January 10, 2012, 06:14:50 PM »

Quote from: ekuo on January 10, 2012, 05:27:49 PM

I vote for PRGC.

Pre-registered fire, hmmm...

e11charlie · « **Reply #26 on:** January 10, 2012, 07:00:39 PM »

Quote from: luvmy45 on January 10, 2012, 09:20:08 AM

I was thinking about which guns I would want to have, and they have nothing to do with looks, or perceived "value" to anyone.

What I would want would be the following:

Rifle and Pistol in .22 - preferably with a suppressor.

Any battle rifle will do in a common caliber 223/5.56/7.62/308/ what's sks/ak??

Handgun in some sort common caliber, 9mm or .45

Some sort of long range rifle, in a common caliber. 270/308/30-06/7mm mag, etc

My theme is, if it's a gun I can shoot it, if its in a common caliber I can scrounge/trade or make ammo easier than an odd duck caliber. I could do most my small game hunting with a 22, bird/squirril/cats/dogs, etc... and with the suppressor, it doesn't attract attention or scare the other game off.

Just my thinking...

I agree completely with you. .223 and a .22. You can survive well on gophers and cats. J Mack I would not go with the Abrams. I would think more about a stryker. The Abrams takes 5 gallons of fuel to just start.

J Mack · « **Reply #27 on:** January 10, 2012, 09:03:08 PM »

Quote from: e11charlie on January 10, 2012, 07:00:39 PM

J Mack I would not go with the Abrams. I would think more about a stryker. The Abrams takes 5 gallons of fuel to just start.

You might be right!
I need to rethink my make-believe scenario transportation.

El Conquistador · « **Reply #28 on:** January 10, 2012, 09:23:32 PM »

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the good ol' 12 gauge! I know its not the best distance gun, but a great choice in a close up situation, and one the wife or a bigger kid could use and still hit a target. It also fits into my "what do most households have" theory. I think most houses around here might have a box of shells sitting around, and while it may not be your first choice, birdshot is better than nothing if your out of ammo. I think most of you, like me, might have a box or two of ammo set aside for our various guns. But what if you get separated from your base or vehicle? On the other side of that situation, many people might have the old shotgun in the back of the closet, but NOT have shells. If you are prepared, shells would be very valuable to barter for food, batteries, meds, or whatnot. And I think the whatnot will be the first thing to run out.

tgibson · « **Reply #29 on:** January 11, 2012, 05:21:01 AM »

Quote from: El Conquistador on January 10, 2012, 09:23:32 PM

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the good ol' 12 gauge! I know its not the best distance gun, but a great choice in a close up situation, and one the wife or a bigger kid could use and still hit a target. It also fits into my "what do most households have" theory. I think most houses around here might have a box of shells sitting around, and while it may not be your first choice, birdshot is better than nothing if your out of ammo. I think most of you, like me, might have a box or two of ammo set aside for our various guns. But what if you get separated from your base or vehicle? On the other side of that situation, many people might have the old shotgun in the back of the closet, but NOT have shells. If you are prepared, shells would be very valuable to barter for food, batteries, meds, or whatnot. And I think the whatnot will be the first thing to run out.

Shells take up too much room and it's too slow to load. The same reason the shells would be good to barter with is the same reason it might not be the best choice...they'll be hard to come by IMHO.
Adios
TG

mikedamerell · « **Reply #30 on:** January 11, 2012, 07:31:40 AM »

I would think that a nice mag fed 12 gauge would be a great addition to any combination of the fore mentioned guns. I have recently become a huge fan of the saiga 12, it is just as fast to load as most .223's and is very effective for short-ish range work. I can load 6 of the 20 round drums comfortably onto my carrier and it is dead sexy.

luvmy45 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 11, 2012, 08:17:09 AM »

Quote from: mikedamerell on January 11, 2012, 07:31:40 AM

I can load 6 of the 20 round drums comfortably onto my carrier and it is dead sexy.

I think you meant to say "dead weight"

I don't think it would take people long to figure out that at 50 yards or so, a leather jacket stops birdshot... while it might sting, it ain't going to kill you.

There is a place for the shotgun, but I really don't see it as a gun I'm going to carry around in this situation.

emathey · « **Reply #32 on:** January 11, 2012, 12:35:07 PM »

How many AR mags could you carry around for the size and weight of 6 20 round Saiga 12 drums.

luvmy45 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 11, 2012, 03:06:41 PM »

6 20rd Saiga would weigh about 12-13lbs

6 30rd Pmags would weigh just over 6lbs

So I could carry 12-13 PMAGS loaded for that 6 Saiga mags weigh.

20rnd of 12ga is approx 2lbs... 30 rnd loaded PMAG is 17.8oz

mikedamerell · « **Reply #34 on:** January 11, 2012, 03:35:01 PM »

you are forgetting the sexy factor. Remember size matters....

Scarecrow · « **Reply #35 on:** January 11, 2012, 05:38:25 PM »

The big advantage of a shotgun is that it's cheap to purchase and socially permissible. There are a bunch of downsides to a shotgun. Lets get back to discussing how our firearms will visually impress people in TALE (The Acronym Laden Environment).