Topic: To reload or not to reload? That is the question

[e11charlie]

Thanks to Jmack and Hawkeye I am well on my way to reloading bliss.

[e11charlie]

Scratch that last. Still looking for a good press.  Would like a turret press but will take a good deal on a single stage.  STill need all the rest like scale, trickler, primer pocket cleaner, brass debur tool, case trimmer, and powder measure.  Any help would be cool. 

[fj40mojo]

Scratch that last. Still looking for a good press.  Would like a turret press but will take a good deal on a single stage.  STill need all the rest like scale, trickler, primer pocket cleaner, brass debur tool, case trimmer, and powder measure.  Any help would be cool. 

Cliff's has some used equipment.

[luvmy45]

I'm not bashing Hornady, but I think, and this is from my own experience starting out... if I had to do it again, and start over... the Dillon 550 is the perfect starting press, and advanced press.

It doesn't automatically advance on the handle pull, you can do one shell at a time and figure out what's going on, use it as a single stage press, and when your ready, because it won't be long, you can ratchet up to bulk loading and there's no reinvestment cost.

If you want, there are a bunch of use with 550's, we can have you over for tea and set you up on the 550 and explain the process and let you pull that handle to see what we are talking about. I'm loading 308 and 223 this week on the press, getting ready for 3gun and LRTR.

Others will chime in as well, I know money is always an issue, and you can't go wrong reloading no matter what you get, but I would encourage you to really take a close look at the 550.

[J Mack]

I would make my list like this and ultimately base my decision from.

1)   Budget, for some reason all other decisions are based off this.

2)   Need, obviously if you three gun and shoot 1000’s of rounds a bulk loader would be a top priority just like the bench guys would load one at a time on a arbor press. So I’m assuming you’ll fall somewhere in-between.

3)   Want, I’m intentionally listing this high on my list because most guy’s I know are type “A” and we can’t stand someone else having the press of our dreams so if you settle for a press now be prepared to sell it at a loss when you buy the press you really wanted to start with. 

4)   Mechanical aptitude, the more gizmos/stations on a press the better the chance you’ll make bulk junk ammo. If you’re not above average mechanically I would stay away from the “bigger” more complicated presses as they seem to make bad ammo quicker and more often than the “smaller” less complicated presses. Reloading is only enjoyable when you’re making usable ammo!

5)   Space, the “bigger” progressive presses take up quite a bit of room and reloading in the garage in the winter sucks. If you only have a small space in the house available to you then a smaller press will serve you better in the house and you’ll ultimately load more ammo if your press in in a climate controlled room.

 
The Dillon 650 is my favorite press for making bulk ammo and some long range precision ammo have been loaded with it as well but not without tweaking and many $$$ in components. If you plan on using a case feeder with your progressive press and load rifle then the 650 or 1050 are your only Dillon choice, if a case feeder and or loading rifle with a case feeder is not important than the 550 will serve you well. “You can only load pistol cases in the 550 case feeders.”
 I have a new Hornady LNL progressive on a shelf in the shop that I have only inspected at this point in time. I can tell you it looks well-made and I see no reason it won’t make quality ammo at a fraction of the 650 cost.

[donm]

I bought a 550B and 2 change over kits. Now I can't afford bullets for a while. have used it and fell in love with it. I still have the rock chucher set up next to it and use it also. Single stage are great for load developement. I used a single stage for 30 years and after the first year of pistol competition I had to get a progressive. i was spening too much time in the basement reloading and wearing my arm out. I agree that a 550B would be a good choice for a first press if you have a help from someone who knows how to do it. I learned by reading reloading manuals and talking to people. Just go for it and you wont regret it. There is nothing more satisfying than make a load that really brought that group size in tight.

[egress81]

I used a 550 for a couple of years for both bulk handgun and precision rifle stuff. I really liked it but was getting to the point where I blasted more then I needed precision ammo so I upgraded to a 650.

I still have a single stage for when I need to do precision stuff or small batches for testing when I don't feel like changing out the 650.

here is a post about how much this guy saves by reloading.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/360313_Is_Reloading_Worth_It___You_Decide.html

[J Mack]

Scratch that last. Still looking for a good press.  Would like a turret press but will take a good deal on a single stage.  STill need all the rest like scale, trickler, primer pocket cleaner, brass debur tool, case trimmer, and powder measure.  Any help would be cool. 

I just ran 3 LBS of brass on the 1050 and it’s in the tumbler for you now.
I figured it would be better for you to have prepped brass ready to load rather than brass needing prep.
I also have my old reloading bench that my 650 was mounted on and you are welcome to it if you bring a pickup. It’s a nice little bench that’s served me well for many years. I'll look around to see what else I have.

[Beamncoke]

I have a Rockchucker single stage press in a box somewhere.  You are welcome to borrow it until you decide on what you want to buy.

[motosapiens]

I will eventually get a progressive press, but as a newish reloader (since last march), I'm doing fine with a single-stage press. I spent about $200 including dies and a vibratory case cleaner to get started.

I'm shooting 500-700 rounds/month, but using a single-stage setup means you can do it while you watch tv and sip beer, so instead of wasting my time watching football, I can size and prime 600 cases sitting in front of the tv. Once the cases are sized and primed, it only takes me 11-12 minutes to load, seat the bullet and crimp a lot of 50, so in 35-40 mins I can load enough ammo for an idpa  match the next day. If I'm not watching football, I use the time to think about shooting fundamentals, or idpa rules, or something shooting related.

Progressive is nice, but I think i'll be alot better prepared for a progressive press having loaded several thousand rounds (15-20 mins at a time) on a single-stage press.

p.s. I woulda bought a turret if I could've found one in town, but I'm too impatient to wait for mail order.

[Jaggy13]

I will eventually get a progressive press, but as a newish reloader (since last march), I'm doing fine with a single-stage press. I spent about $200 including dies and a vibratory case cleaner to get started.

I'm shooting 500-700 rounds/month, but using a single-stage setup means you can do it while you watch tv and sip beer, so instead of wasting my time watching football, I can size and prime 600 cases sitting in front of the tv. Once the cases are sized and primed, it only takes me 11-12 minutes to load, seat the bullet and crimp a lot of 50, so in 35-40 mins I can load enough ammo for an idpa  match the next day. If I'm not watching football, I use the time to think about shooting fundamentals, or idpa rules, or something shooting related.

Progressive is nice, but I think i'll be alot better prepared for a progressive press having loaded several thousand rounds (15-20 mins at a time) on a single-stage press.

p.s. I woulda bought a turret if I could've found one in town, but I'm too impatient to wait for mail order.

I am still relatively new to reloading, I just started last winter but have about 20k under my belt.
I have only had a few ammo related issue over the last year and I can tell you that's a few too many.
I think about those issues (Squibs, 380 brass slipping though when loading 9mm, and OAL being too long) when ever I think about allowing any kind of distraction around me when reloading. No TV, No alcohol and no other distractions.

If your able to sip a beer and watch TV while you load, your better at it than I am. I find that if I don't have 100% confidence in my ammo it reflects in my shooting. I am on a progressive press though, and as a wise man once told me... "If I'm not careful I can make a lot of bad ammo really really fast!"

Just my .02 worth...

Also, to the OP if you still haven't found a press yet, I have a single stage I could loan ya for a while as well. I'm sure I'm a bit closer than BeamnCoke is to ya.

[e11charlie]

Nope got an excellent deal from broncovan. Got dies and shells from jmack. Picking up some powder and other things from no-one this Friday. Now all I will need is a scale, and I will want a trickler too. Jmack offered to help me set up my dies and stuff.  Vern is closer to me so maybe he can lend a hand in doing that. Then I will be set to load my first 200 rounds. My OCD can't wait. I will still need to get a tumbler at some point. All in good time.

[junkie]

Just keep posting what you need I a sure someone will have the parts.

[motosapiens]

If your able to sip a beer and watch TV while you load, your better at it than I am. I find that if I don't have 100% confidence in my ammo it reflects in my shooting. I am on a progressive press though, and as a wise man once told me... "If I'm not careful I can make a lot of bad ammo really really fast!"

If loading on a progressive, I agree, you don't want distractions. In my experience loading on a single-stage is entirely different and you only have to pay attention here and there. Once you charge a tray of 50 cases, you have to spend 15 seconds to visually inspect the charged cases and verify there is approximately the same level of powder in all of them. Not a bad idea to pick one and weigh it every now and then to make sure your powder measure isn't doing anything unusual.

I admit, I did have a flaw in my procedure at first, and I accidentally grabbed an uncharged case from the pile instead of a charged case from the tray to seat the bullet. I figured it out when I got to the end of the tray and still had a charged case left while the other tray of seated-but-uncrimped bullets was already full, so I knew I had an empty case in there somewhere. Now, when I switch from charging/expanding to seating, i put the pile of uncharged cases on the floor, so the only place I can grab from is the tray of charged cases.

I have 100% confidence in my ammo. When I move to a progressive, I expect to still have 100% confidence in my ammo, but I won't be watching football when I load.

[Nealio]

I will still need to get a tumbler at some point.

The Cabelas one (which is the same as the Berry's one) is pretty good and priced well.  I think Jaggy has one.

[motosapiens]

The Cabelas one (which is the same as the Berry's one) is pretty good and priced well.  I think Jaggy has one.

every couple months it goes on sale too, and comes with media and polish and a manual (gold-pan style) strainer for $20 or so cheaper than normal.

[avking]

Reloading is great for competition, because you can play with your load and get what you want. But, it takes a LONG time for the average joe to see any financial benefit. Sure, you save money, but if you put $1,500 into a 650 plus all the other stuff you need, it takes a long time to pay for it self. Even if you save .15 a round, and I don't think that is realistic, it would take 10,000 rounds just to pay for itself. I think the payoff for the average loader is probably closer to 20,000 rounds and it does not take into account the time you spend loading, testing loads, chrono time, all the rounds wasted developing the load and chrono the load.

I think you need to shoot 5k a year or more to make it worth the time, effort and money to reload.

[motosapiens]

Reloading is great for competition, because you can play with your load and get what you want. But, it takes a LONG time for the average joe to see any financial benefit. Sure, you save money, but if you put $1,500 into a 650 plus all the other stuff you need, it takes a long time to pay for it self. Even if you save .15 a round, and I don't think that is realistic, it would take 10,000 rounds just to pay for itself. I think the payoff for the average loader is probably closer to 20,000 rounds and it does not take into account the time you spend loading, testing loads, chrono time, all the rounds wasted developing the load and chrono the load.

I think you need to shoot 5k a year or more to make it worth the time, effort and money to reload.

I agree you need to shoot alot to justify a very expensive setup. That's why I started small, on a single-stage. I calculated by the time I used up my first order of bullets (2000 zeros) the equipment would all be paid for. I'm mostly loading for .40, so it's hard not to save at least .15/round. If you're only loading 9mm, it takes longer, and in fact is probably not worth it for most non-competitive shooters.

[avking]

I agree you need to shoot alot to justify a very expensive setup. That's why I started small, on a single-stage. I calculated by the time I used up my first order of bullets (2000 zeros) the equipment would all be paid for. I'm mostly loading for .40, so it's hard not to save at least .15/round. If you're only loading 9mm, it takes longer, and in fact is probably not worth it for most non-competitive shooters.

I see it as a catch 22 with a single stage. Sure, it is cheap to get into it, but a competitive shooter will have a really hard time loading enough on a single stage, without it being a full time job. I guess it comes down to how much spare time you can put into loading and how you value your time. If it is a hobby and you have a lot of fun doing it, that would help. Me, I don't really enjoy loading, I just do it to get the load I like and to save some $$$. It took me a little less than a year to break even, but I was unemployed that whole time and shooting every weekend and a bunch of major matches.

[RGinIdaho]

I haven't kept up with tool prices but with a quick glance at Dillon's catalog, I think you could go progressive and load for one pistol for well under $1K. You could probably add one rifle caliber to the mix and not hit $1k. That is if you only stick to must have's. On a single stage you could easily get it done for a few hundred. Buy used and it's even cheaper.

Press
Dies - carbide - you don't generally need foofy crimp or size dies if you know how to set up a die
Scale
Calipers - you could get by with a ruler and a good eye...
Book - I consider the data a secondary reason for buying the book. The how to and why are must haves.

Tumbler - not a must but close

Everything else is nice but not a must for pistol.

For rifle, add
trimmer
deburring tool
lube
Hornady/Stoney Point headspace tool is almost a must but there are work arounds

[motosapiens]

I see it as a catch 22 with a single stage. Sure, it is cheap to get into it, but a competitive shooter will have a really hard time loading enough on a single stage, without it being a full time job. I guess it comes down to how much spare time you can put into loading and how you value your time. If it is a hobby and you have a lot of fun doing it, that would help. Me, I don't really enjoy loading, I just do it to get the load I like and to save some $$$. It took me a little less than a year to break even, but I was unemployed that whole time and shooting every weekend and a bunch of major matches.

I expect everyone will have a slightly different formula, and that's cool. Since I can leave my stuff set up and since i only shoot 400-600 rounds a month (plus a bunch of .22), single-stage loading is not a burden. If I shot much more it would be. I also was reentering shooting after many many years, and didn't really know if I would stick with it at a serious level, or back off and just plink now and then. There are many things to consider and assess when making a decision of how to get started. For a case like the OP's, where money is an issue and the quantity of shooting is relatively low, single-stage makes total sense to me. OTOH, if you have the money to spare, and you know you're going to be shooting alot, starting with a progressive might make more sense.

For people that aren't jerks, it might also make sense to befriend someone who has the equipment, and bribe their new friend to show them the ropes for 1 or 2 evenings. That could go along ways towards educating someone as to what they really want. I'm kind of a jerk, so I didn't want to go that route. 

[avking]

For people that aren't jerks, it might also make sense to befriend someone who has the equipment, and bribe their new friend to show them the ropes for 1 or 2 evenings. That could go along ways towards educating someone as to what they really want. I'm kind of a jerk, so I didn't want to go that route. 

I think that is a great way to go. I loaded on someone elses dillon 650 for almost a year before I got my own. Only had to go over once a month to load up what I needed for two handguns. It was really nice having the mentor to teach me how to do it and not kill myself while pulling the handle or pulling the trigger.

[ekuo]

I loaded pistol and rifle on a single stage for almost 20 years before I bought a progressive.  I even shot an entire year's worth of competition shooting while loading on that single stage (6-8,000 rnds).  It's doable to stay up with that by spending a couple hrs during the week to reload, but god help you if you shoot say 200 rnds on one weekend, go out of town all week, then shoot another 200 rnds the following weekend. 

So it all depends on time and availability.  I still use that single stage for prepping rifle brass, so it hasn't been collecting dust even after I got the progressive. 

[Nealio]

I agree you need to shoot alot to justify a very expensive setup. That's why I started small, on a single-stage. I calculated by the time I used up my first order of bullets (2000 zeros) the equipment would all be paid for. I'm mostly loading for .40, so it's hard not to save at least .15/round. If you're only loading 9mm, it takes longer, and in fact is probably not worth it for most non-competitive shooters.

Well I know most of the guys here are saving $.09 - $.10 a round loading 9mm AND you get a lot better ammo.
You could probably get it down to $.12 a round savings if you went with lead and cheaper primers.