Topic: Welcome Patriot!

[Jeff]

Welcome to the Boise Shooter forum Patriot!  Please reply and tell us a little about yourself.  

[Patriot]

I'm Alex with Patriot Pawn & Gun in Star, Idaho with a new store opening soon in Homedale.

Bob at RK told me this is a great forum. Looking forward to interacting.

[popsgunner]

Glad you are here my friend, lots of great guys and gals here, LOTS of opinions and info as well. Hope to see you out at the range somemore as well.
Pops

[J Mack]

I'm Alex with Patriot Pawn & Gun in Star, Idaho with a new store opening soon in Homedale.

Welcome to Boise Shooters.
What are the chances I could persuade you to stop spamming Z-Idaho with single ads for every firearm in your shop and maybe just post a single ad with multiple firearms for sale?
 You guys are the single reason I stopped browsing the firearms section on Z-idaho!   

[Patriot]

Welcome to Boise Shooters.
What are the chances I could persuade you to stop spamming Z-Idaho with single ads for every firearm in your shop and maybe just post a single ad with multiple firearms for sale?
 You guys are the single reason I stopped browsing the firearms section on Z-idaho!   

What are the chances I could persuade you to buy all my guns and pay all my bills? :-)

[Patriot]

Glad you are here my friend, lots of great guys and gals here, LOTS of opinions and info as well. Hope to see you out at the range somemore as well.
Pops

Thanks Pops! Love reading here. Good stuff.

[J Mack]

What are the chances I could persuade you to buy all my guns and pay all my bills? :-)

If you’re asking me if I’ll pay you to spam a free e-commerce site designed to connect individuals with single products I would have to respectfully decline. :-)

I’m not begrudging you the opportunity to make a living selling firearms on the internet but I do question your tactics of posting multiple ads filling multiple pages of products form your business making buying and selling between individuals bothersome at best and frustrating to the point that some of us refuse to muddle through all your ads to try to find an honest deal.
So my original question was and still is do you think if you posted a single ad with multiple firearms you would have the same success as your current tactics?

[popsgunner]

e- commerce is all about thinking outside the box and trying new things J mack, I'm pretty sure Patriot is NOT trying to piss folks off. How long does it take to look thru the ads, a couple minutes ? WELL SPENT over a cup of coffee.
I'm also sure Patriot does need me to cover his six but we DO tend to stick together. Trust me when I say Patriot IS a great guy and businessman and will help the shooting community go forward.
Pops

[J Mack]

e- commerce is all about thinking outside the box and trying new things J mack,

I have no issues with outside the box and simply implied that I thought his tactics resembled spam. If you’re still not sure of my meanings of electronic SPAM here’s some reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_%28electronic%29

I'm pretty sure Patriot is NOT trying to piss folks off. How long does it take to look thru the ads, a couple minutes ? WELL SPENT over a cup of coffee.

I’m missing your point completely here and I apologize but how long does it take you to answer the phone when a solicitor calls or weed through all your E-mails with all the solicitors sending you request? I'm assuming you like the rest of America have filters on your phone and E-mail to prevent unsolicited advertisers form interfering with you during your normal actives. I’m certain most of the businesses partaking in unsolicited advertising or SPAM are not trying to piss folks off and consider themselves forward thinkers.  The true travesty here is that we need to invest our time and money to try to protect ourselves from all these forward thinking great guys that are just trying to make a buck.    

I'm also sure Patriot does need me to cover his six but we DO tend to stick together. Trust me when I say Patriot IS a great guy and businessman and will help the shooting community go forward.
Pops

I hope the two of you don’t take me expressing my opinion as a personal attack and can see it for what it is just one man’s opinion on SPAM and the folks that spread it.

[popsgunner]

No dude, knock yourself out, thats what this is all about. 
Pops

[Nomad]

 Welcome to Boise Shooters a great group of people here.....
 Pop's is ok.....so I heard....LOL......

[Patriot]

I have no issues with outside the box and simply implied that I thought his tactics resembled spam. If you’re still not sure of my meanings of electronic SPAM here’s some reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_%28electronic%29
I’m missing your point completely here and I apologize but how long does it take you to answer the phone when a solicitor calls or weed through all your E-mails with all the solicitors sending you request? I'm assuming you like the rest of America have filters on your phone and E-mail to prevent unsolicited advertisers form interfering with you during your normal actives. I’m certain most of the businesses partaking in unsolicited advertising or SPAM are not trying to piss folks off and consider themselves forward thinkers.  The true travesty here is that we need to invest our time and money to try to protect ourselves from all these forward thinking great guys that are just trying to make a buck.    

I hope the two of you don’t take me expressing my opinion as a personal attack and can see it for what it is just one man’s opinion on SPAM and the folks that spread it.

J Mack, no offense taken and hopefully you won't be offended at my answering your Position above.

You cited wikipedia's definition of "SPAM" to support your thesis that I am "spamming" Zidaho which appears to be (expressed by you) interfering somehow with your activities on there.

This begs a couple of questions: 1. Does my activity truly meet the universally accepted definition of "SPAM" as you assert. 2. Is your activity on Zidaho to view firearms for sale...or something else?

As to #1: This is the definition of "SPAM" according to the source "you" listed: "Spam is the use of electronic messaging systems (including most broadcast media, digital delivery systems) to send unsolicited bulk messages indiscriminately."

Questions: How is my listing "Firearms for sale"...just like everyone else on Zidaho...meeting the definition of "SPAM" above? I am certainly not sending the Gun Listings "indiscriminately" as I am specifically targeting a "Guns for Sale" online classified listing service. I could see your point if I was randomly listing firearms for sale in the Lingerie Section, etc. but I am having a difficult time understanding your complaint of "Indiscriminate" when I am listing Guns for Sale in a Guns for Sale online site (which is by definition the purpose of the Firearm's Section).

I am also not sending "Bulk" messages (the word "bulk" used in a "SPAM" context is a generic message repeated over and over, no variation). I am sending out individual unique messages which address a different "Gun for Sale" in each message, therefore not meeting the definition of "bulk" above.

As to "Unsolicited"...I would argue that each and every Gun Listing (including any you post on Zidaho) is entirely "Unsolicited"...does anyone solicit you to post your ads? Doubtful. Does anyone solicit any of the others on Zidaho to post their ads? Doubtful.

As to question #2: "2. Is your activity on Zidaho to view firearms for sale...or something else?"

J Mack, why do you go to Zidaho's Guns for Sale Section if "not" to view Guns for Sale? How is my listing different individual "guns for sale" impeding your (assumption on my part) viewing of different guns for sale in our area? If your activity/goal on Zidaho is to view "Guns for Sale" in our area, it would seem to me to be a reasonable assumption that you'd want to view all the available guns for sale in our area...unless your purpose in participating in the "Guns for Sale" section on Zidaho is something different than viewing "Guns for Sale"...please explain if your purpose differs from what I am assuming.

In thinking about your challenge for a few minutes, my assumption is that what is probably really bothering you is that you buy and sell guns locally and our persistence competes with you a little in one of two ways, if not both: 1. You sell guns on there, too, and we're cutting into your biz a little (hey, that's the American Way, Free Market Competition, don't hate the player, hate the game). 2. You try to cherry pick the private party sales that have their stuff priced under market so you can grab a below market deal.

Just my opinon, FWIW, and I have no ill will toward you. Heck, come by the stores any time. I'd love to meet you and show you the guns in person. You are certainly entitled to your opinion...I would just push back a little and state that the universally accepted definition of the word "SPAM" that you use to describe me listing "Guns for Sale" on a "Guns for Sale" site is inaccurate.

[Patriot]

e- commerce is all about thinking outside the box and trying new things J mack, I'm pretty sure Patriot is NOT trying to piss folks off. How long does it take to look thru the ads, a couple minutes ? WELL SPENT over a cup of coffee.
I'm also sure Patriot does need me to cover his six but we DO tend to stick together. Trust me when I say Patriot IS a great guy and businessman and will help the shooting community go forward.
Pops

Thanks Pops. Feelings are mutual. We've gotten consistently great service from you guys and I appreciate all the advice and knowledge you've given. Looking forward to meeting up with you for some shooting when the season gets better. Wife and I are going to take the class in '12 when the weather gets better.

[agunforeachhand]

Zidaho was a free system to the consumers of idaho. Patriot you have the right to do business just like everyone else. The problem I see is the pawn shops are taking advantage of the FREE part. I agree with J Mack just a couple of listings with multiple firearms would do the trick just as easy as putting up 50 ads.


Either way welcome !!

[J Mack]

J Mack, no offense taken and hopefully you won't be offended at my answering your Position above.

 Absolutely no offense taken and please note that I’m not a competing store or private firearms dealer trying to give Patriot Pawn & Gun a black eye and I again apologize if I’m coming off as so.

You cited wikipedia's definition of "SPAM" to support your thesis that I am "spamming" Zidaho which appears to be (expressed by you) interfering somehow with your activities on there.

This begs a couple of questions: 1. Does my activity truly meet the universally accepted definition of "SPAM" as you assert. 2. Is your activity on Zidaho to view firearms for sale...or something else?

As to #1: This is the definition of "SPAM" according to the source "you" listed: "Spam is the use of electronic messaging systems (including most broadcast media, digital delivery systems) to send unsolicited bulk messages indiscriminately."

   

Etymology

According to the Internet Society and other sources, the term spam is derived from the 1970 Spam sketch of the BBC television comedy series Monty Python's Flying Circus. The sketch is set in a cafe where nearly every item on the menu includes Spam canned luncheon meat. As the waiter recites the Spam-filled menu, a chorus of Viking patrons drowns out all conversations with a song repeating "Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam... lovely Spam! wonderful Spam!", hence "Spamming" the dialogue. The excessive amount of Spam mentioned in the sketch is a reference to the preponderance of imported canned meat products in the United Kingdom, particularly a brand of tinned ham (Shoulder Pork hAM = SPAM) from the USA, in the years after World War II, as the country struggled to rebuild its agricultural base. Spam captured a large slice of the British market within lower economic classes and became a byword among British children of the 1960s for low-grade fodder due to its commonality, monotonous taste and cheap price - hence the humour of the Python sketch.

In the early 1980s, companies that bulk-mailed unsolicited advertising material routinely referred to it as "SPAM" - their acronym for "Sales Promotion and Marketing"

If and when you make multiple ads on Z-Idaho with the following.
Please call: 286 7300
We offer 90 day layaway
www.patriotpawnandgun.com
Patriot Pawn & Gun
9712 W. State ST (Hwy 44)
Star, ID 83669
10-6:30 M-F, 10-5 Sat.
Buy, sell, trade, order, consign, and transfer guns.  Stocking dealer for Springfield, Glock, Ruger, and Sig Sauer.

I consider this “Sales Promotion and Marketing" for your store and I’m not sure how one could interpret is as anything else!  

Questions: How is my listing "Firearms for sale"...just like everyone else on Zidaho...

J Mack, why do you go to Zidaho's Guns for Sale Section if "not" to view Guns for Sale? How is my listing different individual "guns for sale" impeding your (assumption on my part) viewing of different guns for sale in our area? If your activity/goal on Zidaho is to view "Guns for Sale" in our area, it would seem to me to be a reasonable assumption that you'd want to view all the available guns for sale in our area...unless your purpose in participating in the "Guns for Sale" section on Zidaho is something different than viewing "Guns for Sale"...please explain if your purpose differs from what I am assuming.

I’ll try to make my point this way. ZIdaho.com is by definition Idaho’s best local marketplace featuring classifieds.
And classified ads are by definition: Classified advertisements are much cheaper than larger display advertisements used by businesses, and are mostly placed by private individuals with single items they wish to sell or buy.

Therefore I contend if every gun dealer “business” in the grater Boise area including the big box stores “business” listed every firearm in their inventory in individual ads daily on Z-idaho your “business” ads along with all the “individuals” sales ads would get buried in a deluge of big box store advertising no longer making it a classified section so where do we draw the line, at your pawn shop with its advertising in a classified section or do we wait for the big box store to start thinking outside the box and turning their attention to a site clearly labeled as classifieds.  
      

As to question #2: "2. Is your activity on Zidaho to view firearms for sale...or something else?"
In thinking about your challenge for a few minutes, my assumption is that what is probably really bothering you is that you buy and sell guns locally and our persistence competes with you a little in one of two ways, if not both: 1. You sell guns on there, too, and we're cutting into your biz a little (hey, that's the American Way, Free Market Competition, don't hate the player, hate the game). 2. You try to cherry pick the private party sales that have their stuff priced under market so you can grab a below market deal.

Again you’re half right, I am trying to participate in American Way, Free Market Competition and cherry pick the private party sales that have their stuff priced under market so I can grab a below market deal but some pawn shop keeps cluttering up the classified ads with their store advertisements!

Just my opinon, FWIW, and I have no ill will toward you. Heck, come by the stores any time. I'd love to meet you and show you the guns in person. You are certainly entitled to your opinion...I would just push back a little and state that the universally accepted definition of the word "SPAM" that you use to describe me listing "Guns for Sale" on a "Guns for Sale" site is inaccurate.

Again my original question is and has always been do you think that your sales would suffer if you placed a single ad with multiple items for sale as opposed to multiple ads with single items for sale?
Heck I’ll even write the ad for you just to show there’s no hard feelings.

Patriot Pawn & Gun 9712 W. State ST (Hwy 44) is turning over a new leaf for the New Year!
Starting 01/01/2012 Patriot Pawn & Gun will no longer be placing multiple annoying advertisements in the classifieds but we will instead be placing single ads with multiple deals.
This week’s deals:
Buy any firearm Patriot Pawn & Gun and we’ll pay the sales tax!
Or buy any firearm from Patriot Pawn & Gun and we’ll give you a box of ammo!

This week’s featured guns:
   
FNH FS 2000 / .223 / $1699.00
   
Winchester Model 70 / 7mm Rem Mag / $449.00
   
Glock 27 / G27 / $449.00

Desert Eagle / Baby Eagle / 40 S & W / $439.00

Desert Eagle / 50 AE / $1199.00

Z-Idaho Terms: http://www.zidaho.com/classifieds/contact/#whatis

Classified advertising: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_advertising

 

[agunforeachhand]

J Mack that was very well put. And I totally agree with you.

Again Patriot welcome and hope that by the opinions here you arent discouraged about boiseshooters.

[J Mack]

This begs a couple of questions: 1. Does my activity truly meet the universally accepted definition of "SPAM" as you assert.
I would just push back a little and state that the universally accepted definition of the word "SPAM" that you use to describe me listing "Guns for Sale" on a "Guns for Sale" site is inaccurate.

I had some time to think about this and I’m going to have to agree with you and SPAM although accurate may not be the most accurate word to use to describe your actions on Z-Idaho free classifieds.
I agree with agunforeachhand and "TAKING ADVANTAGE" or "ABUSE" may have been a better choice and I will refrain from using the word "SPAM" when referring to your actions on Z-Idaho, I will however let you come up with a more appropriate word if you disagree with mine.
As of me posting this reply you had 54 individual listings on Z-Idaho classifieds advertising items in your store.     



Link to your Z-Idaho page:
http://secure.adpay.com/searchresults.aspx?pid=72384C364F7A3658525365384D666C503351366C48773D3D&uid=526E57346E7A6F437A6459464E35574870386E2F5A773D3D&procid=2cd17184-2009-4cc3-a71c-026fa4fa10b0

[Patriot]

     
Again you’re half right, I am trying to participate in American Way, Free Market Competition and cherry pick the private party sales that have their stuff priced under market so I can grab a below market deal but some pawn shop keeps cluttering up the classified ads with their store advertisements!

LOL 

[Patriot]

Again my original question is and has always been do you think that your sales would suffer if you placed a single ad with multiple items for sale as opposed to multiple ads with single items for sale?
Heck I’ll even write the ad for you just to show there’s no hard feelings.

Patriot Pawn & Gun 9712 W. State ST (Hwy 44) is turning over a new leaf for the New Year!
Starting 01/01/2012 Patriot Pawn & Gun will no longer be placing multiple annoying advertisements in the classifieds but we will instead be placing single ads with multiple deals.
This week’s deals:
Buy any firearm Patriot Pawn & Gun and we’ll pay the sales tax!
Or buy any firearm from Patriot Pawn & Gun and we’ll give you a box of ammo!

This week’s featured guns:
   
FNH FS 2000 / .223 / $1699.00
   
Winchester Model 70 / 7mm Rem Mag / $449.00
   
Glock 27 / G27 / $449.00

Desert Eagle / Baby Eagle / 40 S & W / $439.00

Desert Eagle / 50 AE / $1199.00

No hard feelings on this end either. To your question, yes, sales do suffer. We experimented (a couple of years ago) with less frequency in posting and the numbers went down. I would agree with something more along the lines of "Take advantage" of a Gorilla Marketing opportunity (like Zidaho's listings) as opposed to "Spam"...as I think most people would consider "Spam" to be random messages from Nigeria trying to scam you or sell you generic viagra 

I do like your advertising idea. I owned an ad agency and publishing company for 11 years and was the GM of an Ad Agency in Boise so I can tell you with some credibility that you have talent! 

This issue is probably something we aren't going to see eye-to-eye on...and unfortunately, if it comes down to feeding my family or irritating a few people...you probably know the call I'm going to make.

However, I will give your suggestion some thought and maybe try it and test it out. Not a promise, but I've heard your beef and will certainly consider it.

[J Mack]

However, I will give your suggestion some thought and maybe try it and test it out. Not a promise, but I've heard your beef and will certainly consider it.

If you can change your 2012 Z-Idaho tactics without adversely affecting your business to reflect something less than a "Take advantage" of a Gorilla Marketing scheme I will donate $100.00 to your favorite Charity in 2013 then everyone WINS!
As long as Patriot Pawn & Gun is not listed as your favorite Charity.   
 

[Patriot]

If you can change your 2012 Z-Idaho tactics without adversely affecting your business to reflect something less than a "Take advantage" of a Gorilla Marketing scheme I will donate $100.00 to your favorite Charity in 2013 then everyone WINS!
As long as Patriot Pawn & Gun is not listed as your favorite Charity.   
 

I can tell you my least favorite charities: GM, our Banking System, and maybe Solyndra.

How about you donate that Ben Franklin to the Rainbow Coalition? 

[Patriot]

J Mack, good chattin' with you...but I've gotta run. I have to finish posting more ads to Zidaho :lol: 

[dvc]

... 2. You try to cherry pick the private party sales that have their stuff priced under market so you can grab a below market deal...

Wow.  I never realized how wrong this practice was until now!   

Is cherry picking firearms not right or is it cherry picking anything from classified ads? 

Just curious.

dvc

[Patriot]

Wow.  I never realized how wrong this practice was until now!   

Is cherry picking firearms not right or is it cherry picking anything from classified ads? 

Just curious.

dvc

Interesting question. I wasn't asserting that as "wrong"...I think cherry picking good deals off of classifieds is just as valid an endeavor as posting Gun Ads on a Gun Ads classified listing site.

[agunforeachhand]

I think you both have the right to do whatever you want. I just think for Patriot that his point can get across just as easy posting a couple of ads every couple days then posting a bunch all at once. What annoys me is when I go to the gun ads sometimes all I see on 1 page is patriot gun ads so I have to go to the next page. Is it a biggie not really but my computer is slow so it takes a bit longer to load.

Sorry Patriot, I posted in another thread how posts have been way off topic in threads and that this place has became to political  and then I come in here and do it here in your welcome thread.  Sorry again.

Happy new year