Topic: Rem 700 Frankengun-?s for the Gunsmiths

[BadtzMaru]

A few years back I bought a 700 in .243.  I was pretty uneducated at the time and didn't know what to look for.  It was tagged as a BDL but it clearly has an ADL stock - I didn't know the difference at the time.  I still haven't been able to get Remington to tell me what it is by the serial number.  That's a small issue and really doesn't matter.

The big issue (maybe):  I was doing some reading about these rifles and it was noted that the bolt has the last 4 numbers of the serial number scribed on it.  Looked at my 300 WM and sure enough, same numbers.  Looked at my .243 - oops, numbers don't match.

My question is, should I care?  Will a replacement bolt headspace correctly?  I've never had an issue loading or firing the gun.  I have had a heck of a time getting the scope zeroed (could be me and my "excellent" eysight).  I might address that in a later post.  The issue at hand is whether the bolt might cause a mechanical problem unrelated to my shooting skills.

I would appreciate your insight.

[popsgunner]

Does the gun function 100 %, if so, don't worry about it.
Pops

[BadtzMaru]

Does the gun function 100 %, if so, don't worry about it.
Pops

I think it does.  Two things got me headed down this path.  First is the difficulty getting sighted in and a hunting misadventure with the gun a few weeks ago (couldn't hit anything).  Then the last time I took it out to double-check the scope, the bolt got progressively more difficult to close.

The first issue may just indicate I need more range time and I would not argue with that.  The second may be attributable to a bolt that needed a serious clean and lube.  I have not had a chance to shoot it since I serviced the bolt.

I mostly wanted to hear some expert opinions.  If everybody freaked out then I would know that I should freak out as well.  As things stand, I think I will take it out to the range again and have my sharp-shootin' friend go with me.  If he can get it on target, then I know it's not a mechanical issue.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[agunforeachhand]

You got me wondering now, how do you tell a BDL stock from a ADL stock? How bout long action and short action?

[EDGE]

Essentially, the only differences are in the finish and accessories/stocks that come with them.

ADL is the lowest priced of the three with either a hardwood stock or synthetic stock (blind magazine, no floorplate) and a black oxide finish.

BDL is the classic (not a midgrade.) Nice, walnut stock in a classic profile and blue finish.

CDL is similar in quality to the BDL but in a more modern, slimmer walnut stock and same barrel/action finish.

[popsgunner]

are you shooting handloads.....did the gun function properly when you first bought it....what scope are u using....who mounted it..... I know more questions to ponder, we have found handloads attribute to 85% of problems, poor cleaning and no lube account for the next 13% and yes even some factory f ups have come up but very few.
Pops

[J Mack]

I would check head space with its current bolt and if it's good than drive on.
I have gauges if you need help.

What size group dose this rifle shoot @100 yards with it favorite load?
Describe the process you used to sight it in and the issues you had.

[BadtzMaru]

Combining answer to both Pops and J Mack.

I'm shooting Remington Core-Lokt 100 grain.

I have a Leupold Rifleman 3-9x40 scope with Weaver bases and rings.  The scope was mounted and boresighted at Cabela's and then I verified it with my own laser boresight (the kind that plugs in the muzzle).

Last year I ran a box of ammo through it.  Started with a improvised rest (chunk of a tree out of the wood pile with a towel for padding.  Seemed to do okay.  About a 2" group of three at 25 yards.  Opened up to about 4" at 100.  Bear in mind this is me holding the rifle and resting the forearm on the rest.  I did about the same with an unattached bipod and figured I could live with that.  I never got a shot at a deer, so there was no real-world test.

This year got crazy and the season was upon me before I was ready.  No practice sessions for a while.  Shooting at animals between 150 and 250 yards.  Missed all of them.  The guy that was with me said the bullets he could see were hitting in the dirt low and left.

So I headed out to the "range" on Pleasant Valley Rd.  I had used the neighbors garage to check the boresight again.  Using the paper plate with a black dot method and a bag-type rest, the shot was dead on at 25 yds.  At 100 yds, the group opened up to about 5".  I then started shooting from a sitting position to see what would happen.  At 100 yds, the group was about 9".  At 125 yds, I would miss the plate entirely about 40% of the time.  After a total of 20 shots over the course of 1 1/2 hours, I started noticing that the bolt was getting very difficult to open and close.  So the final 10 shots were a struggle to get loaded.

What this suggests to me is that I need a lot more range time and probably some lessons on shooting form, breathing and nerves control, etc.  I also need to determine how much my cross-dominance plays into the equation.  I've read that the Remington ammo can tend to bind up in some chambers, so I thought I would try some other brands to see it that made a difference (after a good cleaning and lube).  And finally, while researching the stiff bolt, I ran across the matching numbers deal and wondered if a mechanical issue was playing into this.

[popsgunner]

chamber gauges

[J Mack]

Track down some Birchwood-Casey foaming copper remover, stick and old ear plug in the muzzle and shoot the foam in from the breach and let soak awhile and patch out, repeat until it comes out clean.
Check to see if your barrel is free floated by sliding a dollar bill around the barrel and between the stock back to the receiver.
Check the action screws and all scope mounting screws including the ones holding the mount to the receiver.
As Pop’s said it wouldn’t hurt to have your headspace checked but the fact that it will close on a new case says it’s not below Min and it would have grossly over Max to see what you are experiencing. I think it’s possible to shoot better groups with .243 ammo in a .308 barrel than what you are describing and I would perform the steps above before I shot any more ammo through it, pay attention the first couple of shots after you clean and if the rifle shoots good for say three to five rounds then starts to open up stop shooting and reclean with the copper remover until your patches come out clean, repeat until your barrel settles down.

I think it wouldn’t hurt to try to hook up with one of the many experienced shooters here on Boise Shooters and get you and your equipment shooting better than paper plate @ 100 before you head back out hunting.

[ida83704]

Last year I ran a box of ammo through it.  ......

This year got crazy and the season was upon me before I was ready.  No practice sessions for a while. 

If you have not shot your rifle since last season......... This could be alot of the problem


The Practical Precision Matches monthly shoots at Parma would be a super way to boost your skills.

[Grumblecakes]

i would go with jmacks advice and try the copper remover and a good scrubbing. i would also try different ammo. also check your screws this sounds dumb but heres my story about that.  mounted a new scope on my ar and took it to the range. couldnt get it sighted in, it was embarrassingly bad. no matter what adjustment i made it would not even group in the same area. about 100rnds in was making an adjustment and i noticed the scope was moving on its own. In an effort not to over torque the tube i under torqued it and it wasnt tight enough to hold the scope in place.

i would put my money on barrel fouling though. if i remember right Remington also makes pretty big chambers so you might be getting blow by that is fouling your chamber too. that might contribute to the bolt problem.

[Idaho_Gun_Nut]

100gr bullets seem like they might be too light and could cause bad groupings.  What twist rate does the barrel have?  Is the barrel free floated?  Those are two things to look at for accuracy.

I'd also take it into a competent gunsmith and have the scope bases checked to make sure they are not loose?  I wouldn't trust Cabaela's staff to do a proper mounting job, did they loctite the screws in place?  Seen this happen many times.  It might not appear loose to you by hand but it doesn't take much to throw your groups way off.


Here's a great web site for anything Remington related, mfg dates, etc.

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/

[Bill, Idaho]

I have never had any kind of accuracy with Remingtion Core-lokt (however it's spelled)----If you are talking about the stuff on the shelf at China-mart or Kmart.   Buy a box of something better, and while you're at it, try a few different weights and brands. Each rifle shoots a certain type of ammo differently. Sometimes by a large margin.
  That might fix some of the problem you describe. With all due respect, let someone else try to shoot some groups with it. See what they end up with.    I have seen people hold a gun in their hands and proclaim it won't shoot right, or good, or straight, or whatever, and another person will grab it and drill the paper. 
  I'm not accusing you of not being able to shoot, but try it.
What's the trigger pull like?

[dutch1911]

Just a thought... Remington Armorer here. Reading this makes me think to check the screws on the bottom that hold this weapon together. If they're at all loose your accuracy will indeed suffer.

[J Mack]

Your barrel should be a 1:9 1/8 Twist and stabilize a 100GR bullet  just fine.
I would also recommend trying some different ammo in or about the same weight range if none of the above comments work to improve you group size. 

[Idaho_Gun_Nut]

  I then started shooting from a sitting position to see what would happen.  At 100 yds, the group was about 9".  At 125 yds, I would miss the plate entirely about 40% of the time.  After a total of 20 shots over the course of 1 1/2 hours, I started noticing that the bolt was getting very difficult to open and close.  So the final 10 shots were a struggle to get loaded.

What this suggests to me is that I need a lot more range time and probably some lessons on shooting form, breathing and nerves control, etc. 

First find out what the rifle is capable of doing, THEN find out what you are cabable of doing with it!  I've never liked the sitting position for a shooting stance.  Get yourself some sticks and learn how to use them as a shooting rest out in the field.  The better you can stablize the rifle the better your groups are going to be.

Get to a proper range and use a proper rest and see what kind of groups you can get out of it at 100 yards.  Once you can get it down to an inch or less then you're ready to see what you can do with it out in the field.  I have seen brand rifles with factory ammo shoot sub minute groups, I've seen brand new rifles with factory ammo that couldn't shoot groups tighter than 3 inches at a 100 yards.  Sometimes you get a lemmon.

[BadtzMaru]

Sorry to have left this hanging.  Had to go out of town for work.

I really appreciate the responses.  There are a lot of good ideas on things to check. 

ida83704 mentioned the Practical Precision Matches at Parma.  I got the impression that those were more for experienced shooters.  Is that an opportunity for a relative newb to get some evaluation and training?  Or is it as my initial impression was?  And do they continue through the winter?

[ida83704]

The Practical Precision matches at Parma are not only for experts.

Don't know your skill level, but if you showed up willing to learn something this is a pretty good opertunity.

you won't get trained or evaluated but you will get some help and they will boost your skil level

The next match is Saturday Nov 12 at Parma