Topic: Question about private party sales.

[han_cholo]

Hi guys.  Since I'm completely new to this concept (I just moved here).  I understand private party sales are a face to face, cash and carry, no dealer required kind of thing.  Do you guys recommend writing up a bill of sale?  I'd feel more comfortable having a bill of sale with the gun's info, my info (full name, Idaho DL#, and a phone number) and the seller's info in case something happens later on down the road.  Is that out of line to ask for that? 

Any suggestions? 

[popsgunner]

U r 100% good to go with that idea, great thinking on your part.
Pops

[han_cholo]

U r 100% good to go with that idea, great thinking on your part.
Pops

Much appreciated Pops.  I need to come by and check out your guy's shop soon! 

[Nealio]

I get the buyers DL#, name, etc and make out a bill of sale for each party

[ballardw]

You do want to make sure both buyer and seller are residents of the same state and of the state where the transaction takes place for CYA.

[han_cholo]

I get the buyers DL#, name, etc and make out a bill of sale for each party

That's exactly what I was planning on doing, thanks. 

You do want to make sure both buyer and seller are residents of the same state and of the state where the transaction takes place for CYA.

Of course!   

[Idaho_Gun_Nut]

Under federal law, you can buy a shotgun or rifle at a FFl Dealer in any state, following that federal and state laws.

Handguns may be purchased, but must be shipped back to a FFL dealer in your own state, and transferred to you via your home state law.

NFA items have to be trasferred to a dealer in your own state for transfer to you.

Under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state.

[madsent33]

I get the buyers DL#, name, etc and make out a bill of sale for each party

+1

I like to have a piece of paper saying I don't own the gun anymore, just in case.

[zona5101]

Some people are weird about having any paper on the gun. I guess you could not sell it to them if they won't let you copy down their information from a DL.
Really, what's my responsibility as the seller in the transaction? I suppose it would be to ensure the person I am selling to is not prohibited from buying it (because he's out of state, under age, a felon etc) . Having a bill of sale or his ID doesn't prove the buyer is not prohibited so why bother? Maybe the best thing is to ask "is there any reason you are prohibited from buying this weapon? If he says no. Then what more is expected of you?

[RGinIdaho]

Some people are weird about having any paper on the gun. I guess you could not sell it to them if they won't let you copy down their information from a DL.
Really, what's my responsibility as the seller in the transaction? I suppose it would be to ensure the person I am selling to is not prohibited from buying it (because he's out of state, under age, a felon etc) . Having a bill of sale or his ID doesn't prove the buyer is not prohibited so why bother? Maybe the best thing is to ask "is there any reason you are prohibited from buying this weapon? If he says no. Then what more is expected of you?

I ask for same state ID and ask if they are allowed to buy. I don't write down anything.

In the odd event that the gun was involved in some type of event, I will simply explain that I sold it, checked ID asked about eligibility and let it go.

On trades, I figure if it's an Idaho resident and he already has a gun, he must be good to go.

[Jeff]

Ditto.  I don't get paid to be a LEO/ATF/SecretAgent/whatever so I don't consider doing their work my responsibility.

Now that I hold an FFL I do have to follow certain rules that non-FFL holders don't.

[fm500]

Generally you need to be sure:

1) Person is "of-age".
2) Person is a resident if applicable.
3) You do not know or otherwise have reason to believe they are not qualified to own a gun, and they are the ultimate purchaser.*

*This is tricky.  You are generally not required to research this matter like a FFL dealer would, but if you choose to do so (google them, ask them questions, whatever), and find out for any reason you believe they can't (believe is sufficient, not know), you can no longer sell the gun to them.  On the other hand, I think a greater degree of assurance is required for age/residency so I do check.

I don't know the strict rules of it, but I typically verify residency (drivers license) and age, as these would be hard to turn a blind eye to.  I typically take cash, hand out gun, and away they go.

Your mileage may vary.

[Grumblecakes]

While others disagree i think it would be wiser on your part to get a bill of sale with a name and DL# on it. Saying you sold a gun and proving you sold a gun are two different things. Who is to say when you sold the gun or if you didn't give it to the person ect. It can be that one extra bit of proof in your favor if an incident does ever happen or can be that one extra bit of proof needed to help put a baddy away.

[TrooperBrian]

I get on Willmaker and print off a simple two-page Bill Of Sale, includes all the information, price, addresses and contact information of both parties, condition, serial numbers, and dates acquired/sold/delivered/etc.

[Farlo]

I'm with RG and Jeff on this one.  I prefer the official paper trail for a weapon I own ends before it gets to me.  I don't like that there is a 4473 lying for every OTC weapon I've purchased.  I don't trust Holder-types.  Now, off to get my tin-foil hat refitted.

[FALex]

I had some tool call me when I had my FAL for sale stating he was a trucker from MN and wanted to buy it.  I said that was awesome, he could take a look at it, pay me, and I would send it to his FFL in MN, have it waiting for him when he arrived.  He then TRIED to go on some tirade about how I didn't know my "rights" and that it was my gun and I could do with it whatever I wanted.  So I told him what I wanted to do...get paid, and mail the fucking thing to his FFL and be done with it.  He said he travels the US "and buys guns private party all the time."  I told him that doesn't make it legal.  Wanna' know the kicker to this shitty story?  I called the ATF in DC (Boise's field office was closed at the time) and my FFL; they both said that sale "should be legal."  WHISKEY, TANGO, FOXTROT?! I'm gonna' potentially lose everything I have earned, my family, and my liberty because these momo's don't know two shits about the laws they're trying to enforce. Long story short, the tractor-trailer driving, constitutional law scholar didn't buy my FAL that day.  Thank goodness there are good folks on here who do things the right way!

[Idaho_Gun_Nut]

I had some tool call me when I had my FAL for sale stating he was a trucker from MN and wanted to buy it.  I said that was awesome, he could take a look at it, pay me, and I would send it to his FFL in MN, have it waiting for him when he arrived.  He then TRIED to go on some tirade about how I didn't know my "rights" and that it was my gun and I could do with it whatever I wanted.  So I told him what I wanted to do...get paid, and mail the fucking thing to his FFL and be done with it.  He said he travels the US "and buys guns private party all the time."  I told him that doesn't make it legal.  Wanna' know the kicker to this shitty story?  I called the ATF in DC (Boise's field office was closed at the time) and my FFL; they both said that sale "should be legal."  WHISKEY, TANGO, FOXTROT?! I'm gonna' potentially lose everything I have earned, my family, and my liberty because these momo's don't know two shits about the laws they're trying to enforce. Long story short, the tractor-trailer driving, constitutional law scholar didn't buy my FAL that day.  Thank goodness there are good folks on here who do things the right way!

LOL.. it's always amazing to see people that "should" know the rules and regulations that do not have a clue?  Talk to 10 different ATF agents and you most likley get 10 different responses.  The one nice thing that ATF has provided to us is their FAQ page that pretty clearly states what we can and cannot do as far as transfers go.  Example, most people do not know that it is perfectly legal to ship a firearm to another individual within state lines.  I've bought and sold seveal this way.  Send or receive a photo copy of the buyer's driver license and ship it off after getting paid.

Thanks for the great deal FAL by the way, can't wait to get home and put some rounds through it!

[FALex]

LOL.. it's always amazing to see people that "should" know the rules and regulations that do not have a clue?  Talk to 10 different ATF agents and you most likley get 10 different responses.  The one nice thing that ATF has provided to us is their FAQ page that pretty clearly states what we can and cannot do as far as transfers go.  Example, most people do not know that it is perfectly legal to ship a firearm to another individual within state lines.  I've bought and sold seveal this way.  Send or receive a photo copy of the buyer's driver license and ship it off after getting paid.

Thanks for the great deal FAL by the way, can't wait to get home and put some rounds through it!

Hey bud, no problem.  I know you're gonna' enjoy that beast.  You're absolutely correct about asking 10 different agents and getting 10 different responses...Stuff like that just doesn't sink in until it's happening to you.  It is wise to take every precaution necessary when doing these private party deals.