Topic: Concealed Carry in Church?

[agunforeachhand]

What good is the law if you are dead? I would rather deal with the law after the fact then be DEAD

[RGinIdaho]

What good is the law if you are dead? I would rather deal with the law after the fact then be DEAD

I think the OP's primary concern is dealing with the law in the event that he is discovered carrying in a NPZ prior to a threat of grave bodily injury or death arriving. Once a threat presents itself, there are, in some states, legitimate legal defenses that recognize the need to break a lesser law to avoid bodily injury or death. Prior to that fatefull event(99.9% of the time) you will more than likely require some sort of SUCCESSFUL legal defense.

"Concealed means concealed," would that not somehow extend to posting in an open forum that you intend to carry irregardless of laws to the contrary

Play "stupid games win stupid prizes" comes to mind as well as TG's "if you expect to win, you have to know the rules of the game."

[popsgunner]

What you are saying is not untrue.
We all have our opinions.
The right, the god given right to protect yourself from danger goes well beyond ANY written law, guns are just the most expedient tool we have to date.
Again, IMHO, Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
I don't care if you use your FU, a knife, a raquetball raquet, your car or whatever, I for one WILL NOT be a victim.
That really IS all I have to say about that.
POPS

[danno12345]

Wow!  Sorry for posting & disappearing, I got busy & forgot about this thread!

So, now to drag it up again after 4 days of inactivity...

Thanks for all the responses. 

It is a fuzzy issue, and as was mentioned, I want to (try) and know what the law would be before I decide whether to ignore it or not.

CRJ, I thought the carry laws applied to public schools as well, but the AG link I posted at the beginning specifies private schools. As you pointed out, the building in question is a church first, and a private (?parochial?) school second.

And NoviceHunter boiled it down pretty well:  Is my church always a school if it has classes during the week?

I suspect that anyone I ask, including a lawyer would not be able to give me a straight answer unless there's some existing case law dealing with it.

So then it comes to whether I want to risk the possible consequences if, as RG mentioned, it is discovered that I am carrying "prior to a threat of grave bodily injury or death arriving."   I like the way you put that...

RG, does NPZ = No Pistol Zone??


Zona said, "seems pretty open ended allowing even rote replies to be valid."   Exactly.  I was looking for all opinions and I sure got some! 

Again, thanks to everyone who chimed in.   I appreciate the discussion.

Dan

[RGinIdaho]

RG, does NPZ = No Pistol Zone??

Sheesh, I did type NPZ. That should have been NPE for Non-Permissive Environment.

[danno12345]

Sheesh, I did type NPZ. That should have been NPE for Non-Permissive Environment.

   I would have had to google NPE too...  I got the idea though.

Dan

[Farlo]

Depends on the trier of facts...

No, it depends upon who or what grants the right to self defense.  Is it a law of nature, divinely granted (these two being arguably the same), or assigned by a governing body of humans?

[Kcboats]

Gotta go with Pops here, way to much crap going on in this world to take a chance.  I go to church, believe in God...but always had a problem with the "turn the other cheek"...didnt God order David to wipe out an entire culture?  Also believe there have been a lot of shooting in schools and and churches we have all read about lately...I sure would have liked one responsible adult carrying a weapon on Columbine that day...maybe a lot of kids could have gone home that day.  Remember the Law is always going to be negative to you...your not a criminal so you dont have rights.    I say carry and PRAY that you never, ever, ever have to use it there.  But if you do have to use it...well, I rather have my wife kids go home in my car than a body bag.

[fj40mojo]

Gotta go with Pops here, way to much crap going on in this world to take a chance.  I go to church, believe in God...but always had a problem with the "turn the other cheek"...didnt God order David to wipe out an entire culture?  Also believe there have been a lot of shooting in schools and and churches we have all read about lately...I sure would have liked one responsible adult carrying a weapon on Columbine that day...maybe a lot of kids could have gone home that day.  Remember the Law is always going to be negative to you...your not a criminal so you dont have rights.    I say carry and PRAY that you never, ever, ever have to use it there.  But if you do have to use it...well, I rather have my wife kids go home in my car than a body bag.

From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_the_other_cheek

A literal interpretation of the passages, in which the command refers specifically to a manual strike against the side of a person's face, can be supported by reference to historical and other factors.[2] At the time of Jesus, striking someone deemed to be of a lower class with the back of the hand was used to assert authority and dominance.[3] If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma. The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed.[4] The other alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, by turning the other cheek the persecuted was in effect demanding equality.

I subscribe to the Sam Colt method of demanding equality. Times have changed.

[Evergreen]

I have always packed to synagogue and even some churches that I have visited in the past.  In Oregon, I know that is perfectly legal.  I'm a hoping that this is also legal in Idaho.   Idaho's gun laws I have to say confuse me a bit.  Like, in Oregon, I could pack in the bar area while having a beer, but I am told in Idaho you can only sit in the bar area if you are not drinking.  Then other people tell me you can drink in the bar area while carrying, but you cannot get intoxicated (which is similiar to Oregon's law).  I guess I don't quite know what to believe.  I remember in Montana it was illegal to carry a gun in most of the restaurants, as they don't allow carrying where alcohol is served.  Stupid law for a supposedly very free state.  

In Oregon you can also carry in all schools, except colleges, as long as you have a CHL.  Are the laws any different in Idaho?  I would like to get an answer to this, as I never know where I may end up being while carrying.  I'm sad to know that I cannot carry on BSU.  I was planning on checking out the campus for the heck of it, but never like leaving my gun in the car.   In Oregon the worst penalty for carrying on college campuses was being banned from the campus.  Would there be similar treatment in Idaho or do you risk prison time/fines/loss of 2A rights if you try carrying on BSU?

[NoviceHunter]

Before a bunch of people jump in with the usual, "who cares what the law is; it's your butt, carry anyway!", just in case you wanted that decision to be an informed one:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.handgunlaw.us%2Fstates%2Fidaho.pdf&rct=j&q=handgunlaw.us%20idaho&ei=6KWdTs6QGYbfsQLW7YiLCg&usg=AFQjCNFjBPrlILSyorfBaUVupxLL6efH_A&cad=rja

... and it's the intoxicated rule here in Idaho, I believe.  Used to be the other.

[tgibson]

Before a bunch of people jump in with the usual, "who cares what the law is; it's your butt, carry anyway!", just in case you wanted that decision to be an informed one:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.handgunlaw.us%2Fstates%2Fidaho.pdf&rct=j&q=handgunlaw.us%20idaho&ei=6KWdTs6QGYbfsQLW7YiLCg&usg=AFQjCNFjBPrlILSyorfBaUVupxLL6efH_A&cad=rja

Why start now?

Adios,
TG

[popsgunner]

 
so.... I'll be nice...maybe......
No carry at schools or BSU, thats the law for now, any private business has the right to toss you IF they know you have a gun and they don't like it,
we go by common sense for the bars, you drink, you don't carry. Thought we talked about this common sense thing before.
I still agree with TGibson. look into the laws of probability all you fairly educated types, so many people in a certain area , given a certain possibility for certain crimes and the opportunity to commit them, then add the amount of times you carry and the geographic areas of carry divided by the times that crimes are commited...................hold on thats math, too old for that, just carry concealed when you THINK its ok too. freedom of choice as well as 2A. love it.
pops