Topic: What weight of 9mm and why??

[RevolverLove]

In shooting matches what weight of 9mm bullet do you use and why??

I see folks shoting 115 gr, 124 and 147

What does one weight over another give you?

[Jaggy13]

if you consider power factor to be the equalizer velocity x weight / 1000 and all three grain weights being equal power factor then the difference is basically the felt recoil or more importantly the recoil note.

Lighter faster bullet will feel snappier as apposed to heavy slower bullet will fell more like a slower push.
Nelio shoots a 100 grain bullet at faster speeds and the pistol seems to reset very quickly but also have a bit more of a shock wave.

The other thing to consider is the steel targets, there are many shooters in the camp that say 147 grainers will knock down steel more efficiently. (More energy being delivered to steel)

I shoot whatever I can get my hands on for the best price, currently 124's


If your not a penny pincher like I am, pick up some 147's and load them up to comparable power factor to some 115's and go out and shoot them side by side. Use a shot timer and run some bill drills for the "real story". Nothing like an emotionless timer to tell the real story. Look at your split times and take note of what you also prefer.

[Nealio]

I run 100gr as Jaggy said.  I like the snappier feel and also they are the cheapest.  Less than $.06 a bullet lets me shoot more, which makes me better.
I have never had any issues knocking down steel.  2 rounds with the same "Power Factor" have the same momentum, so they should knock over steel equally.
 - Nealio

[RevolverLove]

Are these lead or plated 100gr.? I've been shooting PowerBond's 115 gr Plated and am very happy with them. About .093 Cents each and very excellant quality, free shipping and great service. I don't find recoil an issue at all with those.
But of course always have my ears open and listening to hard earned advice.

So the rule of thumb is heavier bullet = less felt recoil but needs more umph to make PF? Is that about right?

I would have thought a heavier would equal more recoil but I guess since the speed is slower on a heavier bullet that means less recoil.

[luvmy45]

Heavy bullet moving slow = light bullet moving fast

I really like 230 gr bullets around 750fps in my 45, with Clays it is very soft shooting.

I really like 147gr 9mm around 875 to 900, the 124gr around 1000 to 1050 aren't bad but have more felt snap to them than the 124, the 115's at 1100 are just too snappy for my personal taste.

It really boils down to what you prefer, slow and soft is what I like and can shoot it well.

It seems the 124's are more plentiful than the 147's, which is why I'm shooting them now.

Oh, and lighter bullets also cost less. 

[Jaggy13]

Are these lead or plated 100gr.?

He is shooting plated 100 grain extreme bullets

I've been shooting PowerBond's 115 gr Plated and am very happy with them. About .093 Cents each...

I think your math is off there... I think you mean 9.3 cents each.
Nelio is getting his for just under 6 cents each. every 2 of yours he gets 3.

Not saying that powerBonds aren't great bullets, just saying we try and take advantage of the group buy's to drive the price down.

So the rule of thumb is heavier bullet = less felt recoil but needs more umph to make PF? Is that about right?

Don't think of it as less or more just different. not heavier vs lighter, but slower vs faster.

Imagine that you are going to drive a nail in a board and you are going to hit it just hard enough to drive it flush.
One option is a typical framing hammer and the other is a 3lb sledge hammer.
If the goal is to drive the nail flush, and both hammers will deliver the same amount of force the framing hammer will require a much "faster" swing.

If you go out and take some assorted ammo get good and warmed up and then do some "Bill drills" with both types of ammo on a timer, I think what you will find is the lighter bullets the pistol will seam to reset faster but the heavier bullets will allow for the front sight to drop back into the notch with less effort.
The lighter "snappier" round may feel quicker, but my bet is that your split times will be faster with the heavier bullets because there is not as much correction needed.

Case in point I took a friends glock 17 out to test some ammo. I had the pistol and enjoyed shooting it, so I thought I would run some drills and see how it did for me. Comparing it to my 1911 9mm that sits right at the weight limit for ESP.
My splits with the glock were ranging from .21 to .28 seconds and it felt great and fast to shoot.
My splits with the 1911 were ranging from .17 to .21.

For me that was the best way to notice and really feel the difference between "snappy" vs "push" recoil and what "feels" fast and what "is" fast.

[Nomad]

 Like both 124 and 147gr bullets started using "Longshot" by Hodgdon........
 The powder has good velocity and lower pressures.....
 Get the Hodgdons reloading magazine and take a look.......  

[RevolverLove]

All fantasic points and insights. Thanks. I'm the tpe that has to understand a little bit of how things work and the science behind it a bit. Then when I try differnt things it makes much more sense.

Jaggy, Right the cost is "Nine point three" cents each. I will pay attention and jump on the group buys for sure. Bullets are something you buy regsrless of personal inventory because you'll need em eventually. I like your idea of a shot timer because how it feels is one thing and how you score is another.

I'll spin up some test ammo with your suggestions LuvMy45's and do some tests.

Thanks a bazillion.

I will of course have more questions.

[Nealio]

Are these lead or plated 100gr.? I've been shooting PowerBond's 115 gr Plated and am very happy with them. About .093 Cents each and very excellant quality, free shipping and great service. I don't find recoil an issue at all with those.
But of course always have my ears open and listening to hard earned advice.

So the rule of thumb is heavier bullet = less felt recoil but needs more umph to make PF? Is that about right?

I would have thought a heavier would equal more recoil but I guess since the speed is slower on a heavier bullet that means less recoil.

Most of this was covered by Jaggy and BK, but I thought I'd chip in too.


So 9mm recoil shouldn't be an "issue" as you put it.  Neither should .40 or even .45 out of a full sized gun.  None of these are going to have .44 Mag or .50 AE size recoil.  But as Jaggy was stating, the goal is to see how fast you can get back on target, and how little you can destabilize your platform (gun) during fast shots.
I remember when one of my buddies got a compensator for his AR15.  I thought that was ridiculous since a .223 has so little recoil to begin with.  But now that I have a compensator on mine I realize you can RIP through shots so much faster because the gun doesn't jump hardly at all and you can stay on target much easier.

So with recoil, the faster the bullet the faster the recoil "pulse" (which is the force applied to your hand in reaction to rapid acceleration of the bullet).  So a slow bullet feels like a softer, longer "push" and a faster bullet feels like a harsher, quicker "snap".   However since most gun sports measure the round's "momentum" instead of "energy" (for defining what is allowed or not allowed as far as ammunition goes) you will use less powder (and have less velocity) for a heavier bullet to create the same momentum as a lighter bullet (they call this measurement "power factor" which is a momentum'esque measurement).  Going by momentum allows you to shoot heavier bullets with less energy (which IMHO is directly related to what most people consider "recoil") while still maintaining the same "power factor".  The downside is some feel the heavier bullets make your gun feel "sluggish" and the slower recoil pulse may cause the muzzle to flip up more, but the upside is less overall force/energy applied back to your hand allowing you to keep a more stable platform.

To me the difference in recoil of the 9mm rounds isn't very much, and I like the feel of the sharper recoil.  Plus the lightest bullets are the cheapest..

[RevolverLove]

Good thoughts. I do like Jaggy's idea of the timer. I don't even notice recoil really when I'm shooting. Especially at a match. Like you say it's how fast you can get back on target that counts.

In 9mm the recoil does not bother me at all but that being said I need to compare that against 124 gr and how fast to get back on target.

What is really interesting to me is how the combo of various bullet weights and powders can affect recoil and pf. Everybody has their fav recipe and it seems I just have to experiment to find the best one for me.

Besides I love trying differant things and shooting with my Chrono!!

[Jaggy13]

I have a timer, and some 124's you can test out.
Until i can find a chrono, I need to borow one from time to time.
Sounds like we can help each other out a bit

[luvmy45]

Don't forget in the quest for speed that you need to be accurate.

You should only shoot as fast as you can see your sights

I proved that last time out at Nampa... I shot much faster than I could see, and my accuracy sucked, beyond sucked it was horrible.

So while your chasing the ultimate load, don't forget accuracy. A 3 sec bill drill that is all down zero or all A's is much better than a 2 sec bill drill that is all over the paper.

[TrooperBrian]

I shoot 115 because it's the cheapest. And I'm cheap.

[RevolverLove]

I have a timer, and some 124's you can test out.
Until i can find a chrono, I need to borow one from time to time.
Sounds like we can help each other out a bit

For sure Jaggy. You are welcome to borrow my Chrono anytime. I set it up on a card table and sit in a chair about 10 feet back and let her rip. I have a book I chart 10 shot into.

[RevolverLove]

I shoot 115 because it's the cheapest. And I'm cheap.

I hear ya Brian. I got into reloading to cut the cost and to shoot more. I actually thought I could just find 1 load for my 38's and have 1 powder and just go to town.
Then I got back into 9mm and then 45acp and I started to loose control.

I now have coffee containers full of brass, large and small primers by the thousands, 4 differant types of powders and growing, plated and lead bullets of various sizes, a tumbler , a chrono and now I think I need a progressive!!

I think somebody going to come over soon and just say "Sir, step away from the powder measure and nobody will get hurt"

It's really taking on a life of it's own and I love it!

[Nealio]

I use 1 powder for all my pistol stuff (9mm, 10mm, .45 ACP):  Power Pistol

I don't know how its going to work out for a really weak/soft "competition" load in the .45, but for pushing 185gr bullets over 1100 fps it works great..

[luvmy45]

I don't know how its going to work out for a really weak/soft "competition" load in the .45, but for pushing 185gr bullets over 1100 fps it works great..

We give each other a hard time over what we shoot, and it's all in good fun.

But at the end of the day, what is important is that whatever you choose, to shoot, you can shoot it well.

Most of the fun is trying different things and finding what clicks for you, when it does, it's fun!!!

[RevolverLove]

I use 1 powder for all my pistol stuff (9mm, 10mm, .45 ACP):  Power Pistol

I don't know how its going to work out for a really weak/soft "competition" load in the .45, but for pushing 185gr bullets over 1100 fps it works great..

That's what I thought I could do and I'm still looking for the one.

I keep reading Power Pistol has a lot of flash to it. Don't know if that's true or good vs bad.

Some use Tite group some Clays etc.

I've been using Bullseye for 9mm, 45 and 38 spl. Makes power factor in all classes.

But nobody else seems to be using it a  lot?? Huh?? Hey, I want to shoot what the cool kids shoot!!!  But seriously.

I'm being open minded and wanting to try  a variety and find out my happy load.

As a result, I've got some "extra" powder.

[Nealio]

Yeah it has a little flash/fireball. It doesn't bother me, but some might not like it. In hot 10mm loads it adds a little shock and awe effect.

[RGinIdaho]

.  2 rounds with the same "Power Factor" have the same momentum, so they should knock over steel equally.
 - Nealio

Not so much if you run the math. The light bullet will have more kinetic energy, something about velocity squared times mass... The heavier bullet will have more momentum, something about energy, mass, time...

Now, I don't know which is more important on steel.

[RGinIdaho]

I don't like to shove the light bullets fast as they bark more when they pass 1126fps.

I like 147's. I'm also a huge believer that momentum and more time in contact with the steel is better.

[Nealio]

The heavier bullet will have more momentum, something about energy, mass, time...

Actually momentum is mass*velocity, which is how they calculate power factor.  I know many people think that a heavier bullet has more momentum, but that is incorrect.  It has more inertia, but momentum also takes velocity into consideration.

So 2 loads with equal "power factor" will have equal momentum. The heavier bullet load will have a bullet that has more inertia (and would resist a chance in direction/velocity better) and the lighter bullet would have more energy.  I've never found any clear indication on whether or not a soft bullet impacting hard steel is considered a static or elastic collision, since light, fast bullets tend to splatter and heavier bullets tend to bounce back slightly.  So its hard to say how much effect the energy has on the "knockdown power" of the round when contacting steel.

If it was purely on momentum then a .223 round would knock everything over the same as a .40 "competition" round.  But to me it seems like the .223 hits harder, but that's just my unscientific observation..