Topic: Should I replace my press??

[mjmcmahon]

Hi all -

about 3 years ago, I bought a Lee Classic Turret press as I got started loading my own rounds.  One thing I've noticed in the last few months is that some of my brass appears to have some runout issues and I suspect the culprit may be the press itself.  The turret will often shift front to back when I extend the ram and am sizing the brass and I'm wondering if that may be introducing some cant to the cases.  I've taken to sizing twice - rotating 90-180 degrees between sizing and it's not uncommon for the cases to feel like they're dragging on the downstroke of the press handle.  I don't have a runout gauge so there's no easy way for me to confirm my suspicions.

My process for loading ammo has changed over time and I rarely use the turret as anything other than an easy way to hold multiple dies during the process.  I'm not charging on the die and so I'm wondering whether a single stage wouldn't be a better investment in consistency and accuracy.

Thoughts?

[Jaggy13]

I'm no pro but will share what I have learned...
I have a single stage that I use for de-capping and resizing my rifle rounds, and for my factory crimp die for pistol rounds.
I load for volume, so we definitely have different end goals.
Sounds to me like a single stage would be a great way to go for your accuracy and consistency.
Since you don't need the speed and as I have learned, even with a progressive, it's still nice to have a single stage around.

[mjmcmahon]

Thanks Jaggy -

when I first bought the press, I figured that the turret press would be a good compromise between the speed of a progressive and the consistency of a single-stage.  As my loading process has evolved, I find that I'm doing less and less on the press itself - powder charges, for example, are now handled with an RCBS charge master versus the autodisk pro that I was using when I started.  I think I'll stop by Cliff's this afternoon and poke around.

[RevolverLove]

I use the Lee Classic Turret myself.

I bought an additinal disk and mount only the sizing/decaping die on it. I take out the little twisted bolt in the center so it won't turn.
Then I simply lift off the turret put the bolt back in and then put the other turrent that has the three other dies on it. Works great.
Instead of the autodisk system I bought a charge bar that's mnore like a micrometer. Comes with a little chart to equate the micrometer setting to grains.
Example If I'm using Bulleye Powder the chart says to multiply .1064 X my grains I want to load say 5gr. So .1064 X 5=.532 so the micrometer setting is .53. Except Lee is so conservative that it's more like .56 to weight out to 5 Gr. No problem I weight each one to start and get it dialed in. After I'm sure it's metering properly I check every 5th drop. Sometimes it will flucuate by 1/8 grain but it has never caused a problem. When I load for a match I weight each one anyway.

That system has worked wondefully for me.

[mjmcmahon]

the quest continues...

I stopped by Cliffs yesterday and had a 'less than stellar' customer service experience.  The rep I spoke with appeared to try just about everything to imply the problem was with something other than with the press itself, blaming first me ("must have the turret put in wrong"), then my rifle ("did you ding your crown?")...that he kept talking over me didn't help either.

I did check when I got home and part of the issue may have to do with the manufacturing tolerances on the turrets themselves.  A couple of the turrets seemed to have the same issue with shifting within the top of the press.  The one that came with the press seemed to be more solid.  I just got off the phone with Lee...their only suggestion was to lube the turret.  I'm no mechanical engineer, but I have a hard time understanding how adding lubrication is going to address play in the turret.

Anyone with experience with the Forster Co-ax press?  I'm leaning that direction at this point.

[J Mack]

Is this the same press that you were having the issue loading the .308 ammo on?

You might look around to see if someone has a Rock Chucker you can barrow and use your dies and reloading components to see if you get the improvement you're looking for.
My thought is that Rock Chucker is a press that's readily available easy to setup  inexpensive and known for its ability to load quality ammo, if you only change the press and keep everything else the same you could quickly rule out any press issues.
You might find that you have more than one issue and take what you learn from loading on the single stage and apply it to Lee Classic Turret to load acceptable ammo. 

[luvmy45]

Ok, I'll say it... go buy a dillon 550b... you can load anything and everything, (except 50 BMG) with standard dies... single stage if you want, and manual progressive when you just want to crank out rounds... lifetime No BS warranty, and you can pass it on to your children when Obama revokes your right to life.

Just sayin 

[mjmcmahon]

J Mack -

yes, it is, but I determined the problem with the ammo I loaded for FALex was that I had the die improperly adjusted.  The issue I'm seeing for my rifle is that my groups have expanded to an unacceptable size: the rifle has been capable of shooting 1/3" 5-round groups at 100.  My groups at the same distance at Parma on Sunday were 2-3" in diameter.  

I did a couple of things yesterday: First, I bought new brass...the stuff I've been loading into is somewhat old and I failed to keep records of how many reloads I did on it.  I was seeing indication that the brass was work-hardened (chamfer tools chattering and making inconsistent cuts) and wondered if that may have been a contributor.

Second: I've moved my dies into the one turret that seems to have the least amount of play.  Hopefully that will help.

I have an offer from a co-worker to borrow a Lee single-stage press but, honestly, I'd prefer to avoid drilling more holes in the top of my workbench for a press that I'm not going to keep.

luvmy45 - I'd love to...unfortunately the pricepoint on a Dillon, while certainly worth it, won't fit in the budget at this point.

[J Mack]

OK this is my best advice.
When switching your sizing dies from spot to spot confirm they are setup correctly with the Hornady HK66 LNL Head Space Kit w/Body and only bump your shoulders .002” from a once fired case from your rifle. It’s starting to sound like you might have some head space issues with your reloads.
If you shoot with someone that has a similar rifle and has some factory ammo or ammo loaded from known source, go shoot some of your ammo through their rifle and vice versa.   
Don’t rule out the rifle and maybe barrel fouling. I’ve seen copper create unexpected accuracy degradation.
I’m not saying that your problem isn’t the Lee press but I wouldn’t replace it until looked at everything above.

[mjmcmahon]

I've actually got the LNL bullet comparator set, but I'll go ahead and pick up one of these sets as well...that will also allow me to do bullet comparisons so I can ensure I've got a consistent measurement to the ogive.

I'll do some loading over the next couple of days and see what the results are and then report back.

Thanks for your advice and patience.

[RevolverLove]

Dillion 550b.

Ah, Mr. Ken? Sir! Would you happen to own one of these dream machines and for a nominal fee could I take a look at it in action sometime??

I like my Lee set up but with decapping, brass prep Manual priming and all the rest it take me about 2 1/2 hrs to crank out 100 rds. That thing does 500 per hour!??

That's the next best thing to making love!

[birddog1989]

And the 650 is rated at 800 per hour...

[RGinIdaho]

My Rockchucker is about 35yrs old and still going strong. MJM... you are welcome to bring over some components and give it a try. Your dies or mine.

I have a Dillon 550. It is a great press but it pales in comparison to a single stage for the consistency I like to see in precision rifle rounds. There is just to much play in the tool head and a fair amount of flex in the shell plate.

[mjmcmahon]

Thanks RG....I may take you up on that!  Do you have a concentricity gauge?

[RGinIdaho]

Thanks RG....I may take you up on that!  Do you have a concentricity gauge?

No gauge

[luvmy45]

Dillion 550b.

Ah, Mr. Ken? Sir! Would you happen to own one of these dream machines and for a nominal fee could I take a look at it in action sometime??

Actually, Ken is my dads name, I prefer to go by Brian. 

I started with a Lee single stage, moved up to a Lee Pro1000 for my 45, suffered with that for a while, then found some gold at the end of the rainbow one summer and got the 550b... hindsight is always 20/20, but had I know then what I know now... I would should have started with the 550b and not wasted 10 years of my life.

I load for quantity and a little bit of precision, so the 550b is my friend. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat if I found a good deal on a used one, one setup for small primers, the other for large and I'd be in heaven. I bought some of Uniquetek's threading adapters for the shell plate and took the play out of the tool head, and for my sporting purposes I've managed to load 1/2 MOA loads for my 308 with a somewhat modifiyed loading process on the 550b... check my website linke below... it's a little different now, but close.

RG's probably right, infact I would defer to him on most reloading issues... but for my purposes, the 550b is the meal ticket for fun in the sun shooting lot's of pistol and rifle rounds and having fun.

Happy to show anyone in the BS crowd, just drop me a line and I'll find a time.

[mjmcmahon]

Good news: replacing the brass seemed to do the trick.  My first group on Sunday (discarding the cold-bore and a called flyer) put 3 rounds into .25".  My rifle's back the way it used to be!

I may go ahead and step up to a Forster Co-Ax down the line, but this eliminates the immediate need.

[RGinIdaho]

A solid single stage and a progressive or two is how I like to roll. 

[mjmcmahon]

Now THIS is how my rifle normally shoots:





First shot (clean and cold bore) is 2" high and right, the following four are in the target.  The last shot was me pulling it but, even considering the called flyer, the total group size is <3/4".  Ignoring the called flyer nets a .250 center-to-center group!