Topic: Too bad this isn't a real conversation in the school union offices...

[fastfire]

Teachers Unions explained

[Havanagunner]

It looks like to me that now we will have the teachers paid on their merit and judged on how the kids in their class room move foreward, we are setting up a unique situation. If your class room has kids who don't speak English well, the teacher needs to label them and remove them from their classroom. If a child has a slight learning disability, that child needs to be labled and removed to become someone eles's problem. After all, their pay is judged on their classroom advancement. New schools can be set up to take on all the problem children. And we the tax payer can pay and pay and pay because that's what we live for. It looks like most of the teachers who will be getting the bonuses will be those on the high income side of the tracks. Blond, blue eyed, Aryan children who's parents make lots of money and live in affluent, Park Center, Harris Ranch. Eagle. and such places should benefit . We can remove any equality in the teaching industry. The GOOD teachers will see a need to move to other States where this crap is not allowed. Do you think that maybe, just maybe some teachers may be advanced just because they are cute, with long legs and big boobs. But no this wont happen because __________ will be looking out for the rights of all the teachers.

[eddymunster]

It looks like to me that now we will have the teachers paid on their merit and judged on how the kids in their class room move foreward, we are setting up a unique situation. If your class room has kids who don't speak English well, the teacher needs to label them and remove them from their classroom. If a child has a slight learning disability, that child needs to be labled and removed to become someone eles's problem. After all, their pay is judged on their classroom advancement. New schools can be set up to take on all the problem children. And we the tax payer can pay and pay and pay because that's what we live for. It looks like most of the teachers who will be getting the bonuses will be those on the high income side of the tracks. Blond, blue eyed, Aryan children who's parents make lots of money and live in affluent, Park Center, Harris Ranch. Eagle. and such places should benefit . We can remove any equality in the teaching industry. The GOOD teachers will see a need to move to other States where this crap is not allowed. Do you think that maybe, just maybe some teachers may be advanced just because they are cute, with long legs and big boobs. But no this wont happen because __________ will be looking out for the rights of all the teachers.

I must be reading this wrong or you agree with the status quo? Public schools are failing because of collectivism. If a kid can't or won't get with the program they should be removed. We are all judged on our own merits not as a whole. Placement test should be issued for each child to go to one of three schools. School A- will be for children with the desire and or ability to be a doctor, lawyer, ceo, etc. B- for realtors, salespeople, and management. C- is for the kids that don't habla, don't get it, or don't give a shit.

[DCR]

If I were a teacher I'd be dejected now - my continued employment will depend upon things I can't control, like the home environment of the students in my class.  If the parents aren't supportive, work too many hours to be there for their kids, can't adequately feed and clothe the kids, send them to school with poor or no breakfast, don't speak English as a first language...any number of things...my students' test scores won't improve, I won't get re-hired, won't get a raise, or otherwise advance in my career.

Oh, and it's federal law (civil rights law, to boot - not amendable) that special education students must be educated in "mainstream" classes in all but the most extreme cases.  Same with English language learners.

We can't treat education like a business because the "raw materials" coming in are not uniform in all their qualities.

Idaho's system is not now, and never has been a failing education system - we produce some of the best and brightest students in the country in spite of, not because of, our funding and teacher pay schedules.

[luvmy45]

Do you all understand how this works?

For example... if my pay is based on improvement, it's on the class that I am teaching... where they started and where they end at the end of the year.

Not how they compare to someone else's classroom, or someone else's school in some other district.

So in otherwords, they test on day one... then you give the test on the last day, and you measure the improvement based on where they started.

Give me the most retarded, non english speaking, worst case kids in the world... they'll fail miserably on the get go... then when the test is given at the end of the year I'll bet I can show a huge improvement, and therefore meet all bonus that would be paid for performance. In fact, I'll bet it's easier to show improvement with the "bad" kids than with the good kids, as the ability to move up the ladder is harder with an average learner than with a challenged learner.

This is in fact how, when I was teaching, I was judged, as I taught music... parents expected to see improvement... they kids come in at one level and leave better than when they left, if they didn't well... guess what... no amount of tenure would have kept me employed

[DCR]

It doesn't exactly work the way under the new program as it did when you taught.  First, no approved, validated test exists to give to the students at the beginning or end of the year upon which a teacher's "merit" can be measured - you can't just gin up a pre- and post-test because without validation, the information gathered is useless.  All we have are the ISATs, and even they continue to be under fire for their validity.  Second, each student's "improvement" will be different - there are some kids who simply can't, some who simply won't, and others who just don't care - yet those kids' "progress" will directly affect the overall rating of the teacher.  Third, the teacher will also be evaluated on parental input, which is irrelevant and can be devastating if the parent is a "know-it-all" or thinks his child is brilliant but the teacher just can't teach, when in fact it could be a bad home environment, learning disability, laziness or apathy that drives the kid to dismal performance.  Fourth, and this is partially derived from the third point, if a teacher thinks he just has to spend more time on the special ed, troubled, lazy or apathetic kids to help them learn, he deprives the ready/willing/able students of thorough exploration of the topics and assistance in particular difficulties, as well as preventing them covering more material.  Those students always complain that their teacher spends all the time on the "slow" kids, and you can bet the parents complain about that, which will affect the evaluations.  End result:  the class as a whole doesn't do as well on its ISATs as it could, and the teacher doesn't receive a meritorious evaluation that truly reflects his efforts in the classroom.

Teaching is not easy, and teaching Idaho's constantly changing body of students is more challenging than it was when all classes were a relatively homogenous group of kids.  A complex problem deserves a complex solution, not the blunt instrument our esteemed Superintendent sprung on us and the legislature after his election.  In a way, I feel sorry for the legislators who had to toe the party line and vote for the misguided legislation, but the feeling quickly disappears when I remember they are legislators.

At least they have the right idea on passing firearm legislation that supports RKBA in Idaho - there! I found something nice to say about them!

[Havanagunner]

Well said DCR