Topic: rifle on progressive?

[Jaggy13]

Going to get set up to reload 223 soon and have been reading up on the process vs pistol.
I have carbide dies for the pistol loads I have been doing, Can I get carbide for rifle too? Or do I need to lube cases no matter what?
If I have to lube up the cases I've been told to clean them before seating to keep that die clean.
So are carbide dies the solution?

Also would like to get some xtreem 55 gr in 223 in the next group buy. Is there any load change needed for plates vs jacketed?

[Grumblecakes]

As far as I know carbide rifle dies do not exist. In pistol dies it just an insert anyway. I load on a single stage and have both cleaned them and left the lubes when I loaded them. Only thing to watch for is if you get lube in the case mouth the powder will stick to it.

The extreme 223 are jacketed and have shoot pretty well for me

[birddog1989]

Dillon sells carbide sizing dies for 223($115.95) and 308($151.95).  Dillon recommends that you still lubing cases.  The advantage of them is that it takes less force to size the brass than a steel die and it will last a lot longer if you are loading for high volume competition or commercial purposes. 

http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/24498/catid/4/Dillon_Carbide_Rifle_Dies__Individual___Three_Die_Sets_

You should get a separate die to crimp your brass after the bullet is seated.  You will end up with more consistent ammo and have fewer problems.  I like the Lee factory crimp die.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=456506

[J Mack]

I use the Dillon carbide .223 die in my progressive press and yes you need to lube.
If you want to avoid lube and you only plan to reload ammo that was shot in one rifle only you could use a Redding bushing neck die with a titanium nitride bushing to decap and neck size without lube. If you own more than one rifle in that caliber then stick to full length sizing die and lube.

[luvmy45]

Loading rifle in high volume, sucks. 

The bottle neck - pun intended - is the bottle neck of the cartrigde, and setting the headspace to what works on your rifle. Forming that metal really makes you work the loading ram, and having a good lube is essential.

For rifle, I sepearte the process into several stages... and not all on the same day.

Step 1: Brass is tumbled and cleaned and set aside. (do this when coming back from range)

Step 2: Resize and trim. The trim is option, but I have the Dillon power trimer so I resize and trim in one step. (This require lube)

Step 3: Tumble clean again to remove lube.

Step 4: I now have a pile of brass that is ready to reload (as long as it's not military crimped) The final stage is to decap, powder, bullet, crimp and done. No lube needed on last step.

I just keep my Step 3 box full so that when I do need to load, I can just grap and go, but you have setup a process to get to that point. Otherwise trying to do it all in one sitting sucks.

Tip for lubing - Get a large zip lock bag... put about 100 cases in there, spray in your lube, dillon or Hornady One Shot, then shake it up, open and let the alcohol disolve for a few minutes. I have 2 bags for lubing, one is my goto bag, when I empty the first one, I grab the 2nd one, fill up the first lube/shake/set aside and go with teh 2nd one, and vice versa...

[Jaggy13]

bk, thats what I was thinking and you answered another question about tumbling again to clean the lube.
Thats a great routine!

Any concerns about the exteeme plated rounds and load variations?

[luvmy45]

I load my 223 for 3 gun and fun accuracy, not for 1 hole groups. I save that routine for my 308.

That said, for my 223, I load so that the bullets will fit in my pmags... about 1/8" shorter than the case, that way I know they will feed all the way through the mag... found that out the hard way.

Each bullet is different, so if you switch brands, load a couple and check them out.

I'm looking for velocities' right around 3000fps with my 55gr FMJBT, cheapest stuff I can find... again this is just for 3 gun, Patrol, and plinking fun, and I can usually hit minute of man.

Oh, I also got a RCBS precision Mic for 223... and I use it to set the headspace on my brass, so I know how much to full length resize it... I've had to learn that the hard way as well. With the little mic I know where it's set at and haven't had to butt stroke a round in a while. :-)

[ekuo]

Jaggy,
I load .223 on a progressive, but I do all my brass prep in batches kind of like Luvmy45 does.

Tumble to clean.  Then sort the brass, separating the Nato headstamp, or any of the other brands that have a crimped primer, from the commercial .223 brass.  Then prep the brass in batches and put in a bucket for later loading.  Brass prep entails deprime/sizing, trim, chamfer, debur, then prime.  

Dies:  I use the Dillon 3-die set and lube with Hornady One-Shot prior to sizing.  In truth, this is the only time you need a lubed case.  I like the aerosol lubes -dump a couple of handfuls in a tuperware and give them a few squirts of One-Shot.  Jingle them around to coat the brass and let sit for a few minutes.  Then run all the brass thru the sizing die on my old single stage press.  

Once resized and deprimed, I run each round thru a case gage.  Two reasons for using the gage:  1) check to make sure I have the correct headspacing -which if the sizing die is set up correctly you will,  and 2) check to see if the brass needs trimmed.  Separate into two piles, one pile for the brass that needs trimmed, and the other that does not.

The pile that needs trimmed gets trimmed to 1.750", then chamfered and deburred.  There are a bunch of trimmers out there -cheap to expensive, slow to fast, manual to powered.  Once that is done, both piles get primed.  But if you're reloading brass that had the primer pocket crimped (Nato, Lake City, some of the Federals and a few others), the crimp has to be removed before you can prime, which is why I sort my brass at the beginning.  Bunch of different ways to remove the crimp (see note above on trimmers).  

All the above was the hard part.  The reloading on a progressive is easy.  Powder, seat, crimp.  

I could do all the priming on the progressive in the same manner I do pistol, but every now and then a piece of brass that has had its primer pocket crimped sneaks thru my sorting, and that would gum up the works if I was priming on a progressive.  So I use my old single stage for that step, and Dillon for the rest.  

A 2.250" OAL for .223 seems to work pretty good, and the limiting factor for AR's is more in what the magazines will accept.  

Bullets:  Most of my AR shooting is with 55 gr Milspec FMJBT's from Wideners.  I think they are something like $39/500.  For longer distances out beyond 200 yds I use their 69 gr Milspec BTHP also from Wideners.  $69/500 IIRC.  Buy in bulk to get free S/H.  

G'luck!

[Jaggy13]

Thanks for the input Evans!

As you and BK are assuming, my motivation is for 3 gun. Most will be shot through my AR but I would like it be as compatible with other rifles as possible.
Evans, if you were in a match and it had long range targets, would you mix your mags with different grain bullets?
Or are you saying for distance shooting vs 3 gun style shooting you choose different bullets?
What powders are you guys using? 2230 was recommended.

[carharttfarmer]

im pretty sure evans is refering to if there is going to be longer range shots in 3gun he would us the 69gr and the 55gr if all the targets are closer than 200yds

[luvmy45]

I haven't got good enough to start swapping bullets based on range yet... haven't thought about that before.

I use TAC or BLC3 for my AR loads... whichever I can buy in bulk and cheapest at the time. Lot's of good powders for the 223. Both meter fine through my 550.

If your shooting multiple guns, FL resizing will be a must for you, as you need to set them back to a factory spec... or you'll be doing the butt stroke  

[ekuo]

im pretty sure evans is refering to if there is going to be longer range shots in 3gun he would us the 69gr and the 55gr if all the targets are closer than 200yds

This. 

But I'll shoot the same load for the entire stage.   

I got my loads from a couple of different sources, and they are:

55 gr with 25.9 gr of Win 748.  Was chrono-ing at 2,960 fps last time I checked. 

69 gr with 24.8 gr of RL-15.  Can't for the life of me remember what that load was doing on the chrono....

I have some 75 gr Sierra's that I keep meaning to work up a load for, but have not done that yet.  I was thinking that those might be good if there was a strong cross-wind.   

[SinisterRob]

I haven't got good enough to start swapping bullets based on range yet... haven't thought about that before.

I use TAC or BLC3 for my AR loads... whichever I can buy in bulk and cheapest at the time. Lot's of good powders for the 223. Both meter fine through my 550.

If your shooting multiple guns, FL resizing will be a must for you, as you need to set them back to a factory spec... or you'll be doing the butt stroke  

I have recently found that powder is cheaper by the keg.
[attachment=1]
Thats 55lbs of TAC

[Jaggy13]

you want to share some of that?
 
Picking up some components this week and still need to find some powder

[Nealio]

Keg group buy anyone?!?!

[carharttfarmer]

you want to share some of that?
 
Picking up some components this week and still need to find some powder

your to late he is sharing it with me

[Grumblecakes]

where do you get it by the keg?

[SinisterRob]

If you shoot at the western Montana clubs, Hunting Shack Ammunition gives you a price break on certain components. I had an order of eight pounders that was backordered so I ordered a bunch of one pounders while I was waiting and was told it would be cheaper to just get a KEG.

[birddog1989]

HSM ROCKS!  I buy a lot of stuff from them.
http://www.thehuntingshack.com/

You can also call BVAC.
http://www.bvac-ammo.com/

[RGinIdaho]

I have recently found that powder is cheaper by the keg.
Thats 55lbs of TAC

I know you took delivery of this and split it into small lots in DOT approved(manufacturer's works) containers before you moved it because you are aware that;

over 25lbs cannot be transported in a private vehicle unless it is in an approved "magazine" and that over 50lbs cannot be transported in a private vehicle at all per DOT regs.
 

It would probably be wise for most of us to familiarize ourselves with the Idaho Fire Codes. http://www2.iccsafe.org/states/idaho06/

I didn't have time to read through all of it, don't want to read through all of it am bored to tears with what I have read of it so; I could not find the residential-single family home limits. It does say that if you live in a multi-unit dwelling, 20lbs has to go in a 1" thick wood sided cabinet. That gets you to 50lbs and then you are done. Section 3306 covers R-3 dwellings(if you wanted to look). 10k primers is the max in this class as well.

It seems that Idaho Fire Code tends to follow the NFPA guidelines on this pretty closely. I would bet residential-single family is similar based on my reading of NFPA guidelines in almost every load manual put out by a powder manufacturer.

That being said, an unattached shop falls under different guidelines.

Probably just an issue to your insurance company in the event of a fire...

[SinisterRob]

hey RG, definately can't say that I knew it all. But I am making progress on familiarizing myself with the fire codes and DOT regs.

Thanks for the info.

[Steve N]

I have reloaded 223, 220 Swift, and 308 on a Dillon 550 - I don't bother cleaning the lube off of them. I run'em just like a pistol process and have had no problems with the rounds.

The only thing special I do is on my super-accurate stuff I meter and measure my powder individually and not with the progressive setup.

Clean it? It's guaranteed - 

[RGinIdaho]

hey RG, definately can't say that I knew it all. But I am making progress on familiarizing myself with the fire codes and DOT regs.

Thanks for the info.

I just posted to keep folks out of the bite...

[Jaggy13]

alright, got my test loads built.
Wasn't too bad on the Lee, but I think I may have to watch the powder pretty closely. (Such a small hopper)
Going to try and sneak out after work tomorrow.

Thanks for all the tips.