Author Topic: Target Camera (Read 760 times)

J Mack · « **on:** January 04, 2011, 08:58:01 AM »

I'm thinking about making a target camera and I'm looking to see if any of you guys have any experience with the RX and TX components?

In particular the part about a radio license
Quote “Notice: Due to its high RF power, using the TX9-1000 in the USA and other countries will require an amateur/ham radio license”

RX and TX site: http://www.dpcav.com/xcart/home.php?cat=270

General info: http://www.6mmbr.com/targetcam.html

Another RX-TX site with out restrictions: http://www.boostervision.com/cart/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=36

luvmy45 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2011, 09:54:40 AM »

It's not really the power output that requires the Ham License, it's the frequency that you are operating on, it's in the Amatuer TV band.

License will cost you $15 or something like that for a 10 year period, and the tech class is easy to get with a little studying. For the distance you need to go for shooting, that's probably your best option.

We play with this type of stuff at work all the time, but we use commercial equipment that's already licensed. It's cool, but I hadn't thought about using it for a target camera... hmmm....

This could be fun, keep us updated on how this project is coming along, I am very interested... and if you want to build it, I'll make myself available when you shoot, I've got the Ham Lic, so you could operate when I'm around.

Steve N · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2011, 10:06:39 AM »

Target camera? Something that shows the bullet going into something? Or what?

luvmy45 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2011, 10:42:34 AM »

Hey Jmack... you got my brain twiddling, I just found this in our warehouse, we haven't used it in ever.

http://www.grand.com.tw/con_ultimate_wireless.php

It works inside, they say the range is 100m outdoors, which is pretty short, but with some twiddling I may get more... I've got a cheap camera, and a cheap little monitor, so if I can figure out the power, I think I've got a target cam to try out.

Hmm, we'll see how far we can go with line of sight outdoors at the the range.

J Mack · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2011, 11:04:01 AM »

Quote from: luvmy45 on January 04, 2011, 10:42:34 AM

Hey Jmack... you got my brain twiddling, I just found this in our warehouse, we haven't used it in ever.

http://www.grand.com.tw/con_ultimate_wireless.php

It works inside, they say the range is 100m outdoors, which is pretty short, but with some twiddling I may get more... I've got a cheap camera, and a cheap little monitor, so if I can figure out the power, I think I've got a target cam to try out.

Hmm, we'll see how far we can go with line of sight outdoors at the the range.

Sweet...................

Can you tell me the difference between 5.8GHz - 2.4 Ghz and 900MHz for this purpose.

J Mack · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2011, 11:59:49 AM »

LV45 It looks like these guys sell system's that will transmit to seven miles without a license. Can you tell me what to look for?
http://www.vfmstore.com/tr24.htm

Steve,

I'm looking into this system for shooting long distance to eliminate all the traveling back and forth between the target and shooting spot. Yes I know I'm lazy and It's winter and cold in the shop and this is better than watching TV.

On a side note, if I get something working I want to record and import the targets to Quick Target to document group sizes via the Characterizing rife performance using circular error probable measured via a flatbed scanner method without the flatbed scanner.

Or measure CEP for short.
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luvmy45 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2011, 12:20:03 PM »

Quote from: J Mack on January 04, 2011, 11:04:01 AM

Sweet...................

Can you tell me the difference between 5.8GHz - 2.4 Ghz and 900MHz for this purpose.

Well, it's about 3.4ghz and 1.5ghz to be specific

But I think what your asking is what's the difference in performance. The higher the freq, the smaller the antenna and the size of the radio wave... this has advantages for the size of the equipment, but it takes more power to push that smaller wave the same distance as the larger or lower frequency. (Think of the space satellites, you can go clear into space with a 5w of power at the lower frequency's.) Longer wave frequency's also tend to be able to bend/bounce and go through smaller objects without interference, whereas the higher frequencies are so short that sometimes it doesn't take much to cause interference.

For use outside, like we are talking, where we will probably be line of sight (LOS) for use, our biggest concern over interference is going to be is anyone nearby tx or rx on those freq's. 900mhz has been around the longest and has the potential for more interference, the 2.4 and 5.8 are usually used in commercial applications for sending communications long distances (voice/IP/etc...)

For our needs out the boonies... I would think that there is not much in the way of interference from other's and we can just choose the least expensive option for the range that we want.

As is pointed out in some of the other sites, a yagi antenna will get you more range as well, and are relatively simple to build yourself. Antenna's, you could probably double if not triple the range of most tx/rx with the same power using directional antenna's with higher gain. ( I have a yagi on my home ham HT, and with 5w I can get clear to Ontario from Boise, with the whip antenna, I'm only good for a few miles)

Steve N · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:07:35 PM »

Jim, That would definitely be the thing! Driving long distances to see whether or not you hit some thing or not is a novel idea. So you'd have a camera transmitter at the target and a TV type screen, or your laptop screen, to view what was happening -

No-One · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2011, 02:30:21 PM »

There is an extremely expensive version of this idea already available . The guys over at Snipers Hide were loaned one for the last bash and they loved it . It not only lets you see your hits but also had some sort of interface to mark where the hits were on the target . If you could come up with some sort of software/hardware package priced in the 700-1000 dollar range I bet you could sell a lot of them .

Here is the SH thread .... http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2029570&page=1

luvmy45 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2011, 03:19:35 PM »

Great thread on the SH, good find NoOne...

I'm sure JMack is all over it but look for the long post about half way down on SH, good info there.

No-One · « **Reply #10 on:** January 11, 2011, 04:00:17 PM »

Here is another project that someone has already completed .... http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2040635&page=1

J Mack · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2012, 09:45:16 AM »

I'm revisiting this.
adding link for reference: http://www.protectiondepot.com/Wireless-Transmitters-Receivers.html

luvmy45 do you have an opinion on this equipment?

luvmy45 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2012, 12:14:36 PM »

Funny you should bring this back up, we were just looking at this again out at the club.

http://www.protectiondepot.com/900MHz-1500mW-Transmitter.html

I want to use this one as the base unit, 900mhz provides good range and has more options for antennas, because you need a different antenna to get the range.

The bonus here is not only video but sound, with a camera on the end, tx to the remote unit you get audio as well, so not only is the potential to see the hit, but hear it as well.

All said and done the complete setup will be just under 1k with some parts scrounged around the house, but a couple of yagi ant, battery for the far end, inverter and tv for the close end, some ant cable, and some sort of little case that would hold it all, I think we could get 6 hours of use, nd if we put a solar chargers on it, we could extend the usuage time.

J Mack · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2012, 12:36:29 PM »

Would the 900 MHz unit be easier to tune for longer distances than the 2.4 GHz units?
I read that once you starting stretching analog NTSC transmission long distances you will lose image quality and the ability to tune the signal is important.

This is the 2.4 GHz unit I was looking at.
http://www.dinodirect.com/wireless-av-transmitter-wireless-av-receiver-2-4ghz-12-channels-wireless-av-receiver.html

J Mack · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2012, 12:40:06 PM »

More reading on target cams.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/12/diy-big-screen-target-cam-system-with-high-gain-antenna/

luvmy45 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2012, 03:44:48 PM »

Yup, that's the article I just read as well... Using the higher powered tx/rx unit with that antenna setup.

Don't know how soon it will all happen, but we are possibly looking at doing this for our long range and extreme long range stuff. It has lot's of potential, especially if we can get it portable powered.

J Mack · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2012, 06:06:59 PM »

Alternative to the "pencil" TX antenna. a simple 2.4GHz ground plane at the transmitter end.

http://www.jensenjensen.com/radio/GP24antenna.htm

or I might just use a soup can!
http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html

Sorry Jeff.
Maybe you can give us a project section and I'll stop balling up General Gun & Fun Talk area with my random thoughts.

luvmy45 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2012, 09:04:45 PM »

That first one is a variation on a discone antenna... Good antenna but we need gain to get max distance, it's still a omni antenna and little if no directional gain. The work better for reception than transmitting. I use a variation of that with some of my wireless mica at work. Bette than a 1/2 wave at times.

The cantenna is good as well, you can use a pringles can as well. Much better gain, highly directional (notice a trend here, wide coverage area low gain, narrow coverage area or highly directional you get higher gain)

If you can get it tuned to the freq you need they can work, but they are finicky.

The yagi Or parabolic shaped antennas offer good gain and directionality, and the yagi can be home built as well, just math and you can make your own. The trick is tuning the transmission line and gettin the balun right, for receiving you can be off, but for transmitting, if your off, you can burn up the finals in your radio, then you get to start over.

My favorite directional antenna is a helix for the work I do. http://www.professionalwireless.com/product.aspx?sku=s8089l that antenna in combination with their booster and I can punch thru just about any rf crap that happens to be floatin around.

A couple of those would actually work really well for the 900mhz system but at 400 a pop they are price, I have built these from parts at the dollar store, an old spool from some wire, and scrap wire... It got it to work but not as well as the commercial one.

The antennas are the key, you can have the most expensive stuff but without a good antenna it's crap, goes the other way too, a good antenna will make up for cheaper equipment

luvmy45 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 28, 2012, 07:48:37 PM »

The thread that won't die...

If ups does what they say we are going to test out a target cam on Saturday. I've got antennas, tx/Rx, some antenna stands and a Camera and tv to test proof of concept... 1 mile plus.

If it works like I hope, I'll get the battery system setup so it can run for at least 10 hours at the remote location. And the shooter location we can just Ryan inverter off the truck ans watch it and hear it in on a tv

Pics to follow

ida83704 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2012, 08:20:01 PM »

Quote from: luvmy45 on February 28, 2012, 07:48:37 PM

If ups does what they say we are going to test out a target cam on Saturday. I've got antennas, tx/Rx, some antenna stands and a Camera and tv to test proof of concept... 1 mile plus.

I'll see if DK can make it, he has enought scope for 2200 or 2300+.
I think everyone else is done at 2000

broncovan · « **Reply #20 on:** February 28, 2012, 08:55:21 PM »

iPad/iPhone w/facetime?

luvmy45 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 28, 2012, 10:08:15 PM »

Wish it was that simple, and I don't want to put my iPhone down range

It's just a cheap old video camera hooked up to a long range 900mhz tx, coupe of yagi antenna and some cable to get the ant in the air.

900mhz because it's more robust and can have some LOS interference, than higher freq... 1.5watt tx power. It can actually use any camera, but I'm hoping the video camera with sound will also allow us to hear as well as see hits.

broncovan · « **Reply #22 on:** February 29, 2012, 05:29:00 PM »

Quote from: luvmy45 on February 28, 2012, 10:08:15 PM

Wish it was that simple, and I don't want to put my iPhone down range

It's just a cheap old video camera hooked up to a long range 900mhz tx, coupe of yagi antenna and some cable to get the ant in the air.

900mhz because it's more robust and can have some LOS interference, than higher freq... 1.5watt tx power. It can actually use any camera, but I'm hoping the video camera with sound will also allow us to hear as well as see hits.

Chicken.

pv74 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2012, 09:24:59 PM »

Why not use a set of cheap wireless bridges and an IP camera...
No need for licensing...as long as you have line of site, you should be good for several miles...