Author Topic: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr  (Read 1519 times)

Offline carharttfarmer

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sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« on: October 11, 2010, 02:18:23 PM »
were is the cheapest place to get some ? any good deals local?

Offline 9Shooter

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 02:45:22 PM »
were is the cheapest place to get some ? any good deals local?

I was at Dick's on Eagle and Ustick yesterday.  Best price they had was $15 for a block of 500 .22 lr.  Can't remember the brand, I haven't used it before.
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Offline J Mack

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2010, 03:43:54 PM »
were is the cheapest place to get some ? any good deals local?

Carhartt
I'm assuming you are looking for some ammo to try in you're new muffler?
I bought two boxes of REM subs and I think I still have a box left, after the newness wore off I just shoot standard velocity like the SK plus mostly and I think it’s almost as quiet and a lot more accurate.
I buy the SK in bulk at champions shooters supply HERE
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Offline Jeff

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2010, 03:47:45 PM »
Walmart for Federal bulk.  They might have some CCI or Remington subs.
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Offline ida83704

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2010, 03:58:37 PM »
CCI Standard Velocity
Eley(all)
Wolf(all)
Remington Eley, at Cabelas

Anything with a MV of 1080fps or less is subsonic, not all sub's are labeled as sub's.

MidwayUSA has a decent selection also.

Cliff's is about the only place local with any selection.
Cabelas/Sportsmans has some depending


if you are shooting a pistol everything is subsonic except for maybe Stingers.


Offline luvmy45

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2010, 04:01:47 PM »
Standard velocity bullets are right at the breaking point of sonic/sub sonic.

1130fps is the speed of sound at 70degrees at sea level, IIRC.

Standard velocity is right about that speed, and the speed of sound varies at temperature and altitude, so depending on where you at with a standard velocity round you may or may not be supersonic.

The colder it is the lower the speed of sound, and therefore standard velocity will be supersonic. The warmer it is, the speed of sound increase's, and standard velocity would be subsonic.

So, right now, depending on when you are shooting you could be sub sonic with standard velocity, in the winter you'll be supersonic, and in the summer months you would be sub sonic.

But in general, standard velocity .22 are made with higher degree of quality control than the bulk box stuff.

Good deals on standard and sub??? Nowhere around here that I'm aware of...
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Offline agunforeachhand

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2010, 04:08:11 PM »
Can someone give me some brands of subsonic and of standard velocity? Like the federal bulk you buy at walmart what is it classified as? The diff between the 2 has me confuse ???

Offline berg

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2010, 06:12:28 PM »
CCI or Remington subsonic work well in most of my guns.  The Mexican ammo does not cycle nearly as well. (I shoot it out of my bolt action, and it is all pretty accurate) You can order cases from Able Ammo.  Cliff's usually has some unless I saw it first, Impact has subsonic off and on.   If you are in town I can front you a hundred rounds or so until you pick some up?
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Offline carharttfarmer

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2010, 06:58:10 PM »
i have a couple boxes of rem subs work great but the ts ar upper is noisy 
the bulk high velosity stuff has a real crack to it   really bad with the trees around wear i shoot

but if gemtech gets my gsg adapter in the mail tomorrow i should be able to try it on a handgun later this week 

Offline luvmy45

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2010, 10:54:16 PM »
Can someone give me some brands of subsonic and of standard velocity? Like the federal bulk you buy at walmart what is it classified as? The diff between the 2 has me confuse ???

CCI has Standard Velocity ammo, usually in 100round packs, I haven't seen them in bulk packs.

They also have Sub sonic, and a number of brands are sub sonic, I know sportsmans has sub sonic by a couple of different manufactures on the shelf. Yes it costs more.

The difference - SV (standard Velocity) usually loaded to around 1100 or so FPS, just under the SOS (speed of sound) which is 1130fps (or 1128fps is more accurate but I have always rounded up for ease of use) at 70 and sea level SV ammo is below the SOS and us subsonic, as the temp drops however, SV can become supersonic... at 32 degrees the SOS is 1088 fps, so a SV will crack.

Sub sonic is usually below 1100 fps, so even when it gets cold, they are still sub sonic.

Why the big deal about the sound barrier... and we are talking rifles here, because the velocity's don't get up there as much with a shorter barrel pistol... is the transonic zone, the period of time from when the bullet speed drops from supersonic to subsonic. That transition period between the two causes some serious air disturbance around the bullet, causes it to not act areodynamically, and therfore not track along the ballistic path consistently.

Also, there the QC (quality control) on standard and sub sonic is higher and more consistent. Try weighing a bunch of bulk pack .22's... you'll get weights all over the place because of light powder, etc... the QC is not there.

For a really fun expieriment, take a bulk pack and sort them by weight, shoot the ones that weigh the same in a group, then just grab a handful and shoot a group... want to guess which ones will give you the tighter group?
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Offline agunforeachhand

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2010, 09:09:40 AM »
CCI has Standard Velocity ammo, usually in 100round packs, I haven't seen them in bulk packs.

They also have Sub sonic, and a number of brands are sub sonic, I know sportsmans has sub sonic by a couple of different manufactures on the shelf. Yes it costs more.

The difference - SV (standard Velocity) usually loaded to around 1100 or so FPS, just under the SOS (speed of sound) which is 1130fps (or 1128fps is more accurate but I have always rounded up for ease of use) at 70 and sea level SV ammo is below the SOS and us subsonic, as the temp drops however, SV can become supersonic... at 32 degrees the SOS is 1088 fps, so a SV will crack.

Sub sonic is usually below 1100 fps, so even when it gets cold, they are still sub sonic.

Why the big deal about the sound barrier... and we are talking rifles here, because the velocity's don't get up there as much with a shorter barrel pistol... is the transonic zone, the period of time from when the bullet speed drops from supersonic to subsonic. That transition period between the two causes some serious air disturbance around the bullet, causes it to not act areodynamically, and therfore not track along the ballistic path consistently.

Also, there the QC (quality control) on standard and sub sonic is higher and more consistent. Try weighing a bunch of bulk pack .22's... you'll get weights all over the place because of light powder, etc... the QC is not there.

For a really fun expieriment, take a bulk pack and sort them by weight, shoot the ones that weigh the same in a group, then just grab a handful and shoot a group... want to guess which ones will give you the tighter group?

BK so when you buy these different kinds do they actually say Subsonic on the box? That is what has me confused. I bought a 50 round box of federal I believe the were 40grain and they didn't say standard, subsonic or anything like that but they showed an average of 1230fps. Then I have had some Remington's that said hypervelocity? This is what is confusing me.

Offline J Mack

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2010, 09:27:01 AM »
This is what is confusing me.

Low Velocity (Muzzle Velocties < 800 fps)

Subsonic (Muzzle Velocties + - 1000 fps)

Standard velocity .22 rimfire ammunition are cartridges with muzzle velocities between 1055 fps and 1100 fps. Most of your target and match ammunition are in this range.

High Velocity (Muzzle Velocties 1200 fps +)

Hyper Velocity (Muzzle Velocties 1400 fps +)
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Offline J Mack

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2010, 09:42:34 AM »
The diff between the 2 has me confuse ???

525 Blue box bulk 36gr @1260 Muzzle Velocities
550 Red box bulk 36gr @1260 Muzzle Velocities
325 Tan box bulk 40gr @ 1200 Muzzle Velocities
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Offline J Mack

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2010, 10:01:04 AM »
I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.-- Winston Churchill
    I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E. is down! I repeat, we have no I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E.

Offline ida83704

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2010, 10:13:50 AM »
here is a  list of most sub-sonic .22 rimfire ammo.
Any with a muzzle velocity of 1085fps or less will be subsonic for any air temp above abour 35 degrees F.

(so if it is 25 degrees F it will crack, but at 60 degrees F it will be quiet)


mfgr-Country....brand name....mfgr's listed muzzle velocity

Aguila-Mexico…..SSS Sniper Sub Sonic…..950fps
Aguila-Mexico…..Subsonic Hollow Point…..1025fps
Aguila-Mexico…..Subsonic Solid Point…..1025fps
Aguila-Mexico…..Match Rifle…..1080fps
Aguila-Mexico…..Match Pistol…..1080fps
Aguila-Mexico…..Golden Eagle…..1100fps

CCI-USA…..Standard Velocity…..1070fps
CCI-USA…..Subsonic HP…..1050fps
CCI-USA…..Green Tag…..1070fps
CCI-USA…..Pistol Match…..1070fps

Eley-England…..Tenex - Red Box…..1085fps
Eley-England…..Tenex Pistol - Red Box…..1030fps
Eley-England…..Match - Black Box…..1085fps
Eley-England…..Match OSP - Purple Box…..1030fps
Eley-England…..Match Pistol - Black Box…..1000fps
Eley-England…..Team - Blue Box…..1085fps
Eley-England…..Club - Orange Box…..1085fps
Eley-England…..Sport - Green Box (branded as Target - Yellow Box in USA)…..1085fps
Eley-England…..Sport - Purple Box - Made in Mexico …..1085fps
Eley-England…..Subsonic Hollow - Gray Box…..1065fps

Federal-USA…..UM22…..1080fps
Federal-USA…..922A…..1080fps
Federal-USA…..711B…..1080fps

Fiocchi-Italy…..Rifle Match(Exacta Carbina) 22SM320…..1050fps
Fiocchi-Italy…..Rapid Fire Pistol Super Match22SM280…..950fps
Fiocchi-Italy…..Match Training 22M320…..1050fps

Lapua-Finland…..X-ACT…..1073fps
Lapua-Finland…..Midas+…..1073fps
Lapua-Finland…..Center-X…..1073fps
Lapua-Finland…..Pistol King…..958fps
Lapua-Finland…..Pistol OSP…..909fps

Remington-USA…..Eley/Match EPS…..1085fps
Remington-USA…..Eley/Club Extra…..1085fps
Remington-USA…..Eley/Target Rifle…..1085fps
Remington-USA…..Subsonic…..1050fps
Remington-USA…..CBee…..740fps

RWS-Germany…..R50…..1082fps
RWS-Germany…..Special Match…..1082fps
RWS-Germany…..Super Pistol 250…..935fps
RWS-Germany…..R25…..623fps
RWS-Germany…..Rifle Match…..1082fps
RWS-Germany…..Pistol Match Super Clean…..902fps
RWS-Germany…..Pistol Match…..935fps
RWS-Germany…..Pistol C25…..869fps
RWS-Germany…..Target Rifle…..1082fps
RWS-Germany…..Target Pistol…..935fps
RWS-Germany…..Club…..1082fps
RWS-Germany…..Z-Lang…..770fps
RWS-Germany…..Subsonic…..1033fps

SK-Germany…..Rifle Match…..1033fps
SK-Germany…..Pistol Match…..1050fps
SK-Germany…..Standard Plus…..1050fps
SK-Germany…..Magazine .22…..1050fps
SK-Germany…..Z Reduced Charge…..853fps
SK-Germany…..Subsonic…..1033fps

Winchester-USA…..X22LRSUBA…..1065fps

Wolf-Germany(made by SK)…..Match Target…..1050fps
Wolf-Germany(made by SK)…..Match Extra…..1050fps

Offline agunforeachhand

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2010, 10:51:57 AM »
J Mack

thank you

thank you

and
thank you ;D

Offline fj40mojo

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2010, 02:36:11 PM »
If you're still confused click here!


Where do you find this shit JMack? That's freaking awesome-don't let TrooperBrian see it though.
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Offline agunforeachhand

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2010, 03:35:49 PM »
-don't let TrooperBrian see it though.

fj why not?

Offline fj40mojo

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2010, 04:12:02 PM »
fj why not?

History.........

http://www.boiseshooters.com/index.php/topic,10045.msg62946.html#msg62946

Quote
The issue dates back quite a ways. The weak trigger spring breaking under repeated use. The grip safety failing to allow the gun to fire. And the higher sight over bore making rapid sight acquisition take longer than it should. If you don't like my opinion fine, but a quick Google Machine of these issues will turn up hundreds of posts and articles.

There's a reason that over 70% of LE agencies choose Glock over others. The insanely steep price difference aside.

This sure stirred up a shitstorm. By all means carry, shoot, and trust anything you feel comfortable with and believe in. A petty little comment shouldn't make the lightest difference.
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Offline agunforeachhand

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2010, 04:21:18 PM »
History.........

http://www.boiseshooters.com/index.php/topic,10045.msg62946.html#msg62946


But he has always known everything why would this google thing be any different? :sarcoff:

Offline luvmy45

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2010, 04:38:00 PM »
So the boys covered the specifics, but yes... most of what I see int he store says Sub Sonic if it is. CCI is the only one that I see on shelf that say's Standard Velocity.

Hypervelocity and Stingers which are hotter yet really crank up the speed, fine for plinking and having fun, but when accuracy is paramount, SV and Sub sonic loads do the trick.

Especially if your going to shoot beyond 100yds with a .22 with any consistency

This is all just math..speed of sound, velocity of bullets, etc... there is no magic mojo here.
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Offline WTF

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2010, 06:48:44 PM »
not to complicate things, but also consider the length of the barrel you're shooting out of. for example, would a hypervelocity round stay subsonic if fired from a 4in barrel? as opposed to a 16 inch barrel?
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Offline J Mack

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2010, 07:33:50 PM »
not to complicate things, but also consider the length of the barrel you're shooting out of. for example, would a hypervelocity round stay subsonic if fired from a 4in barrel? as opposed to a 16 inch barrel?

Not to complicate complicated things but but why do high and hypervelocity .22 bullets shoot like poop at 25 yards when they are still super sonic?
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Offline No-One

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2010, 08:23:19 PM »
Not to complicate complicated things but but why do high and hypervelocity .22 bullets shoot like poop at 25 yards when they are still super sonic?

Most .22 Rimfires have a barrel twist that's not conducive to accuracy when shooting light , high speed bullets ?? Its just a guess but I could be wrong .
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Offline WTF

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2010, 09:39:16 PM »
Not to complicate complicated things but but why do high and hypervelocity .22 bullets shoot like poop at 25 yards when they are still super sonic?

My Head just blew up...
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Offline ida83704

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2010, 10:29:05 PM »
Not to complicate complicated things but but why do high and hypervelocity .22 bullets shoot like poop at 25 yards when they are still super sonic?

Almost all ammo is subsonic from a pistol/4 inch barrel, Stingers may be supersonic but HV/1250fps is not supersonic from a 3, 4, 5 inch barell.


Probalby because the Muzzle Velocity is all over the place.  Run your HV and HyperV ammo over a chronny, that is the most critical key to accuracy.  I'm guessing the max spread is over 100fps.


I chrony'd 30 rounds of CCI Standard Velocity and the max spread was 100fps with a Std.DEV of 30.
Out past 100 yards you could really see the MV diff.



Offline ida83704

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2010, 10:36:20 PM »
not to complicate things, but also consider the length of the barrel you're shooting out of. for example, would a hypervelocity round stay subsonic if fired from a 4in barrel? as opposed to a 16 inch barrel?

Actually you can hear the diff between supersonic and subsonic.  Shoot it and see.

Supersonic sounds like ripping fabric going down range.
Subsonic just has the muzzle report which is also quieter than HV ammo also.  More of a pop.

Offline J Mack

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2010, 10:41:33 PM »
My Head just blew up...
:up:
A fact of life:
After Monday and Tuesday
Even the calendar says…..
…..WTF…
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Offline carharttfarmer

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Re: sub sonic and standard velocity 22lr
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2010, 06:34:33 PM »
got the thread adapter for the gsg 22 today bulk ammo stays subsonic threw the can so it is going to get alot of use