Author Topic: annealing machine (Read 1421 times)

fastfire · « **on:** September 23, 2010, 03:45:38 PM »

There's one called Ken Light Mfg., but I was trying to find the one called Brass-O-Matic from from Zephyr Dynamics.
The site dosen't work, does anybody know the contact info on Zephyr Dynamics?

Thanks

J Mack · « **Reply #1 on:** September 23, 2010, 03:50:34 PM »

Now that Zephyr Dynamics’ “Brass-O-Matic” rotary case annealer is no longer in production (Zephyr Dy’s owner received a “job offer he couldn’t refuse”), we were excited to learn that Bench-Source is bringing out an all-new, micro-processor-controlled, automated annealing machine. Bench-Source, based in Mississippi, currently produces high-quality scope bases for Savage target actions. The annealing machine is a new direction for Bench-Source, but it displays the company’s trademark attention to detail and superb machining.

Link: http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com...neck-annealer/

New Case Neck Annealing Machine:
http://www.bench-source.com/id81.html

fastfire · « **Reply #2 on:** September 23, 2010, 04:31:01 PM »

Thanks, that looks like about the best one Iv'e seen, but for $500 I might have to make mine.
I really like how it rotates the case when heating.

J Mack · « **Reply #3 on:** September 23, 2010, 05:11:06 PM »

Quote from: fastfire on September 23, 2010, 04:31:01 PM

but for $500 I might have to make mine.

Me too. I'm looking at this, Plans: http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/

And this, Video: http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/?action=view&current=borganneal.flv

And spent a little time looking here, Info: http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

fastfire · « **Reply #4 on:** September 23, 2010, 05:52:00 PM »

Ok, we need a variable speed motor, a sewing machine motor would work.Did you find any info about the motor used?
In the video http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/?action=view&current=borganneal.flv I would place the drop hole farther away from the flame as to let the case cool some to keep from being dented in any way. Also I don't like the idea of quenching the cases.

J Mack · « **Reply #5 on:** September 23, 2010, 06:13:04 PM »

Quote from: fastfire on September 23, 2010, 05:52:00 PM

Ok, we need a variable speed motor, a sewing machine motor would work.Did you find any info about the motor used?
Also I don't like the idea of quenching the cases.

Motors:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180543030671&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Quenching the cases in water will help from annealing past the necks.

J Mack · « **Reply #6 on:** November 23, 2010, 07:52:01 PM »

another option; http://www.annealingmachines.com/home

fj40mojo · « **Reply #7 on:** November 23, 2010, 10:02:26 PM »

Quote from: J Mack on September 23, 2010, 05:11:06 PM

Me too. I'm looking at this, Plans: http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/

And this, Video: http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/?action=view&current=borganneal.flv

And spent a little time looking here, Info: http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

This one looks like it would be less complicated to build.

http://www.annealingmachines.com/model_400

J Mack · « **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2011, 09:20:29 AM »

Fastfire,

Have you made any headway on your annealing machine?
I'm thinking about starting this project sometime soon and building a geneva mechanism.

fastfire · « **Reply #9 on:** March 25, 2011, 06:15:37 PM »

I got it up and running. I tighened my groups by annealing.
You really notice the difference when seating bullets.
Used a gear motor mounted underneath to turn the case when heating, I think it is about 25 rpm.
It doesn't take long to anneal 600 cases, they takes a few seconds per case.
I made a video about 10 min long and was going to post it untill I found it was 440 MB.

Any ideas how to make it smaller?

J Mack · « **Reply #10 on:** March 27, 2011, 04:40:36 PM »

I would enjoy watching the video if you find a way to post it.

J Mack · « **Reply #11 on:** January 12, 2012, 11:36:15 AM »

I think my parts are finally on the way from the machine shop and I want to get it finished and some cases tempered before the winter LRTR this Sat.

Fastfire, do you have any recommendations to help fast track the setup?

fastfire · « **Reply #12 on:** January 12, 2012, 11:57:35 AM »

Are you making an annealing machine from scratch?
I haven't tried to down size my vidio as to do that all I can do is make a very short one and am busey at this time.
When annealing make sure you don't over heat the cases, if you do they will be trash.

J Mack · « **Reply #13 on:** January 12, 2012, 12:16:46 PM »

Yes I'm making my own machine and the drawings have been at the machinist since April so I’ve forgotten most of want I researched.
My biggest question is how are you monitoring the neck temperatures?

J Mack · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2012, 05:53:07 AM »

I had lost my reference material for optimal case temperatures for successful annealing and Fastfire was kind enough to send me a PM with the setup information on his machine.
I have located the process I was looking for and it mirrors Fastfire’s process so I’ll post it here.
Reference material;

Optimal Case Temperatures for Successful Annealing
Brass is an excellent conductor of heat. A flame applied at any point on a case for a short time will cause the rest of the case to heat very quickly. There are several temperatures at which brass is affected. Also, the time the brass remains at a given temperature will have an effect. Brass which has been "work hardened" (sometimes referred to as "cold worked") is unaffected by temperatures (Fahrenheit) up to 482 degrees (F) regardless of the time it is left at this temperature. At about 495 degrees (F) some changes in grain structure begins to occur, although the brass remains about as hard as before--it would take a laboratory analysis to see the changes that take place at this temperature.

The trick is to heat the neck just to the point where the grain structure becomes sufficiently large enough to give the case a springy property, leaving the body changed but little, and the head of the case virtually unchanged.

If cases are heated to about 600 degrees (F) for one hour, they will be thoroughly annealed--head and body included. That is, they will be ruined. (For a temperature comparison, pure lead melts at 621.3 degrees F).

The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft.

Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft. From this discussion we can see that there are four considerations concerning time and temperature:

1. Due to conduction, the amount of heat necessary to sufficiently anneal the case neck is great enough to ruin the rest of the case.

2. If the case necks are exposed to heat for a sufficient period of time, a lower temperature can be used.

3. The longer the case necks are exposed to heat, the greater the possibility that too much heat will be conducted into the body and head, thereby ruining the cases.

4. The higher the temperature, the less time the case necks will be exposed to heat, and there will be insufficient time for heat to be conducted into the body and head.

You can see that there are a couple of Catch-22s involved in this annealing business. On the one hand, the brass conducts heat quite rapidly, and a fairly high temperature with sufficient time must be attained to do the job. On the other hand, too much time cancels the effect, and we will be left with a case that is too soft and not suitable for anything but scrap. Obviously, there must be a solution; otherwise, not even the cartridge manufacturers could do it right.

EDGE · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2012, 01:33:22 PM »

Is there anyplace locally that you guys are getting the Tempilaq?

fastfire · « **Reply #16 on:** March 01, 2012, 04:38:21 PM »

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&newcategorydimensionid=1198

Locally Norco should carry something like it

fastfire · « **Reply #17 on:** March 01, 2012, 04:45:51 PM »

I have read it's best to use 2 , one for desired temp and one at the higher temp than you desire to insure that you do not get too hot because if you get the brass to hot it is trash(don't ask me how I know)

EDGE · « **Reply #18 on:** March 01, 2012, 10:13:41 PM »

Thanks! I'll check with Norco.

J Mack · « **Reply #19 on:** March 02, 2012, 07:23:55 AM »

I've seen the crayons at Norco and I'm sure they could order the paint.

I got my paint at McMaster Carr.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#temperature-crayons/=ghkmm8

EDGE · « **Reply #20 on:** March 02, 2012, 08:54:17 AM »

Oh man, I should have remembered to check with McMaster-Carr. Thanks J Mack!

EDGE · « **Reply #21 on:** March 02, 2012, 09:55:35 AM »

Well, I called Norco and they don't have the paint stuff (the guy didn't know what I was talking about either) and they said they don't stock the crayons, but they can order them.

J Mack,

Do the crayons work for you? I've read on the errornet that the crayons should not be used.

J Mack · « **Reply #22 on:** March 02, 2012, 10:07:35 PM »

Quote from: EDGE on March 02, 2012, 09:55:35 AM

J Mack,
Do the crayons work for you? I've read on the errornet that the crayons should not be used.

The paint I got at Mcmaster Carr is all I've used to setup my machine.
I also read that the crayons are difficult the use with this process.

You are welcome to use my machine again if you need to.

EDGE · « **Reply #23 on:** March 03, 2012, 12:22:36 PM »

Quote from: J Mack on March 02, 2012, 10:07:35 PM

The paint I got at Mcmaster Carr is all I've used to setup my machine.
I also read that the crayons are difficult the use with this process.

You are welcome to use my machine again if you need to.

Thanks, I appreciate that, and I'll probably take you up on it again.