Topic: .260 REM

[J Mack]

Do any of you guys shoot the .260 REM?
I'm in the process of gathering parts for a switch barrel project based on the .308 parent case, the .206 REM looks like a good choice for a second barrel but I don't know anybody that has experience with it.



 Link to some info: http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
Second link: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/08/sherri-gallagher-uses-260-rem-to-win-national-hp-championship/

[ida83704]

Don't shoot one, but what's not to luv.

Based on a case (.308) that has been around for 50+ years and will be around for at least 50 more.

Lots of 6.5mm bullets available
AMAX
SMK
Scenar
Accubond
Berger

Shoots heavier and higher BC bullets than the 6mm version
Not as much recoil as the 7.62 version

the 7mm-08 is a nifty little number also

[fj40mojo]

You can't go wrong with the 6.5/.264 caliber. Great sectional density, high BC, negligible recoil. I think you're on the right track.

[J Mack]

Thanks guys!!
I'm looking at doing a .260 AI or .260 REM.
Quality brass looks like the issue for the REM and if I have to do a bunch of brass prep I might as well do the AI.

.260 AI Link: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek046.html

[Nomad]

 The 260AI would be my choice, seems like all the AI are damn fine shooters.......

[No-One]

Brass for the .260 rem can be as High or low quality as you want since it can be formed by either necking down a .308 or necking up the .243 . A lot of guys neck up the Lapua .243 brass and are very happy with the results .

[fj40mojo]

Brass for the .260 rem can be as High or low quality as you want since it can be formed by either necking down a .308 or necking up the .243 . A lot of guys neck up the Lapua .243 brass and are very happy with the results .

I think I'd go the other way if you are serious about the AI. Neck down .308, seat bullets out to the lands for fire forming loads, this ensures that the base of the case is held firmly against the bolt face and material is pulled from the neck when the new shoulder forms. If you don't the case will stretch in the body just ahead of the web and the result will be premature case failure. Necking down will give you a little extra brass for this process where the .243 might leave you with short thin necks. Or, just buy R-P .260 brass.

[J Mack]

This is why I’m still on the fence and asking if anyone has any experience with the round.
1)   I read the Remington brass is hit and miss.
2)   I read you can neck up but it has its own issues, but plenty of guys are doing this and seems to be the easiest and quickest. 
3)   I read you can neck down and this also has issues but might yield better brass in the end.


I like the idea of the .260 but I lazy and I don’t know if I want to work that hard making good brass.

[fj40mojo]

What I gathered from the link you posted, that guy seemed pretty satisfied with the R-P brass. My dad has a Kimber in .260 and mom's got a Rem Mod 7 in .260. Both are pleased as punch with them and they are using R-P brass. I'd go with R-P if I was doing a straight .260 or Lapua .308 for forming .260 AI, like ya said you'll end up with a better piece of brass in the end. Only time will tell if the .260 Rem really takes off, historically though for some reason that is beyond my comprehension the .264 bore has never really flourished in the US. The .308 bore will probably always rule here in the USA.

[J Mack]

OK I'm moving forward with this project and .243 brass has been my biggest pain in the ass.
Things I've learned along the way.
1) You need to neck turn .243 brass if you plan to make usable .260 brass from it.
2) Neck turning sucks ass.
3) Lapua will have factory .260 brass soon.
4) Neck turning sucks ass!
5) Quality neck turning accessories are hard to come by locally (Thanks Steve N) but I had to make my own set up.
6) Neck turning sucks ass?
7) Lapua will have factory .260 brass soon.

[agunforeachhand]

So J Mack I take it neck turning sucks ass and should just be skipped???

[fj40mojo]

So JMack,
Here is my theory or alternative to neck turning. The object of the operation is 1) to produce necks that are concentric as possible and 2) to make the finished diameter of the sum of bullet diameter plus neck thickness equal to something just under the diameter of the neck portion of your chamber allowing room for the neck to expand at the shot releasing the bullet while maintaining perfect neck tension blah blah blah. So, why couldn't you remove the expander button from your sizing die so that the necks are sized down and all imperfection are then on the inside diameter. Then, select the appropriate chucking reamer that would cut the material from the inside of the case neck and leave the necks concentric and at the finished thickness you want. This would let you use your mill or drill press to turn the tool thereby removing a giant portion of the "suck" form the job. How long till that Lapua .260 is available?

[RGinIdaho]

Luckypunk was shooting a .260rem.

It is popular with the LRT crowd.

[J Mack]

So, why couldn't you remove the expander button from your sizing die so that the necks are sized down and all imperfection are then on the inside diameter. Then, select the appropriate chucking reamer that would cut the material from the inside of the case neck and leave the necks concentric and at the finished thickness you want.

I thought about this exact idea but I was thinking that when the inside reamer was used you would need to hold the case in a sizing die of sorts to apply pressure to the outside of the case to prevent deflection of the tool pressure on the thin brass neck.

So I barrowed a Forester case trimmer with a neck turning attachment from Steve N hoping that I could just make my 200 Lapua .243 cases usable, but the cutter Forester uses would not allow me to get deep enough into the area of the neck that need trimming to remove thickness or (doughnut) without cutting into the shoulder. The cutter is a round carbide tip soldered to a set screw and the radius was too large for this application.   

The process I used to determine if I trimmed enough of the doughnut out was to check if a bullet would fit in the case after it was fired and of course measure, I ended up spending a day making my own tool that I could spin in the lathe and it showed me quite a bit about Lupua’s neck thickness consistency or lack of. On the bright side now I have usable brass and we can test neck turned Lapua brass against factory Nosler .260 and factory Rem .260 to see if it makes any difference. 

Cutter pic:
[attachment=1]

Left is just sized up, center is neck turned to .0130, right fired case after neck turning:
[attachment=2]

[fj40mojo]

I think as long as you were using a good sharp reamer the deflection would be negligable. Brass cuts really easy. A simple jig could be built though that could both keep the cartridge perpenidcular to the spindle and provide the tool pressure resistance and hold the cartridge as well. Nice tool you put together, should be interesting to see if the neck turned cases are significantly more accurate than the factory .260 brass. Are you spinning the tool or holding it in the tail stock and spinning the cartridge?

[J Mack]

Are you spinning the tool or holding it in the tail stock and spinning the cartridge?

I'm spinning the tool in my lathe for now but I will spin it with the same motor that I use for trimming my brass if I need to use it again.

Just shot 1/4 MOA with some barrel break in shots so I think the brass will work for now.

[Nomad]

 Jmack have only heard good about the 260 and the 6.5X284 have thought about it
myself for a general shooter......
 to quote "turning brass sucks" some things change sub min sounds good....... 

[J Mack]

Ok I’ve built five .260’s now, four are shooting and the fifth is in the process of barrel break-in. I have one more to finish as soon as Badger makes more M-2008 receivers.
A few more things I learnt along the way.
1) If you plan on using the heavier bullets you will want a .100 free bore to get all you can form the .308 parent case. FYI: I used a PTG Roscoe .260 match reamer and I couldn’t be happier.
2)  Nosler brass is the best out of the box .260 brass but it’s very hard to find and expensive when you do, Remington .260 brass looks like its too soft for hotrod .260 and shits its primer pocket after two firings.
3) They say Hodgdon H4350 powder is the go to powder for the .260 and they are right. To date I have loaded break-in rounds at 40GR and some accuracy load testing from 41 to 43.5 and everything has shot well under MOA and most under ½ MOA. With powder this forgiving load development will be a snap.
4) Playing the ballistic calculator I discovered a few interesting things. The Lapua 139GR 6.5 bullet traveling at 2850 FPS has 817(ft-lbs) of energy at 1000 (yd) and 7.6 Mills or 23.2 MOA of drop. For comparison a 175GR .308 SMK bullet traveling at 2660 FPS has 661(ft-lbs) of energy at 1000 (yd) and 10.1 Mills or 34.6 MOA of drop.  Both of the above loads are middle of the road loads shot from my rifles and show some of the advantages of to .260 for a long range target or hunting cartridge over a .308.

We’ve had a few hurdles along the way but overall we’re all very happy with our .260’s and I think it’s a great little cartridge for general shooting around these parts.       

[fj40mojo]

Ok I’ve built five .260’s now, four are shooting and the fifth is in the process of barrel break-in. I have one more to finish as soon as Badger makes more M-2008 receivers.
A few more things I learnt along the way.
1) If you plan on using the heavier bullets you will want a .100 free bore to get all you can form the .308 parent case. FYI: I used a PTG Roscoe .260 match reamer and I couldn’t be happier.
2)  Nosler brass is the best out of the box .260 brass but it’s very hard to find and expensive when you do, Remington .260 brass looks like its too soft for hotrod .260 and shits its primer pocket after two firings.
3) They say Hodgdon H4350 powder is the go to powder for the .260 and they are right. To date I have loaded break-in rounds at 40GR and some accuracy load testing from 41 to 43.5 and everything has shot well under MOA and most under ½ MOA. With powder this forgiving load development will be a snap.
4) Playing the ballistic calculator I discovered a few interesting things. The Lapua 139GR 6.5 bullet traveling at 2850 FPS has 817(ft-lbs) of energy at 1000 (yd) and 7.6 Mills or 23.2 MOA of drop. For comparison a 175GR .308 SMK bullet traveling at 2660 FPS has 661(ft-lbs) of energy at 1000 (yd) and 10.1 Mills or 34.6 MOA of drop.  Both of the above loads are middle of the road loads shot from my rifles and show some of the advantages of to .260 for a long range target or hunting cartridge over a .308.

We’ve had a few hurdles along the way but overall we’re all very happy with our .260’s and I think it’s a great little cartridge for general shooting around these parts.       

Ha, those Swedes were on to something weren't they! Lapua should be available any time now. I'm gonna have to get me some H4350 to try now in the 6.5x55. Now you got me thinking about rebarrelling my Model 7 to .260.

[J Mack]

Now you got me thinking about rebarrelling my Model 7 to .260.

I'm not going to brag about group sizes on a forum, but you are welcome to come out and shoot mine. You wont be disappointed.

[fj40mojo]

I'm not going to brag about group sizes on a forum, but you are welcome to come out and shoot mine. You wont be disappointed.

I'm gonna have to do that-soon! I need to do some shooting, for peace of mind if nothing else. BTW Kevin Thomas of Lapua says the first conex of .260 should hit US shores in March. Watcha doin tomorrow morning?

[ID Tactical]

This is going to be my next rifle caliber.  J Mack, you selling any of the five?

IDT

[J Mack]

This is going to be my next rifle caliber.  J Mack, you selling any of the five?

IDT

I think the .260 is a good choice you shouldn't be disappointed.
Sorry none are for sale, I only get to keep two and the others are for buddy's.

[ida83704]

4) Playing the ballistic calculator I discovered a few interesting things. The Lapua 139GR 6.5 bullet traveling at 2850 FPS has 817(ft-lbs) of energy at 1000 (yd) and 7.6 Mills or 23.2 MOA of drop.

Snikes!
That is supersonic to 1650-1700 yards

Should be able to hear a 139 grainer smacking steel at that distance.
Takes 3 seconds to get there and 5 seconds for the smack to return.

Now just need to train your buddies to not speak for 8-9 seconds after the shot.

[ID Tactical]

J Mack,

What's the best barrel length for the 260 Remington, 26" or longer?

Thanks...

[J Mack]

J Mack,

What's the best barrel length for the 260 Remington, 26" or longer?

Thanks...

I'm currently at 24" on both of mine, but we have one at 22" and it looks promising.
I shoot suppressed and 24" plus the can gets a bit long so I think I'll be at 20" to 22" before it's all done.

[tgibson]

Got one of these http://www.jprifles.com/1.2.5_LRP07.php coming in .260.  From all I've heard, I think this thing is going to be the heat.  Can't wait!!
Adios,
TG

[No-One]

Whats the OAL for your 139 grain scenar loads ? Is it something that would be manageable in say an AR-10 platform ?

[fj40mojo]

Got one of these http://www.jprifles.com/1.2.5_LRP07.php coming in .260.  From all I've heard, I think this thing is going to be the heat.  Can't wait!!
Adios,
TG

Base Price:$3,299

[J Mack]

Whats the OAL for your 139 grain scenar loads ? Is it something that would be manageable in say an AR-10 platform ?

Sorry I don't know the mag length for the AR-10
With a 139GR Lapua Scenar it's 2.830 to the barrel lands using my reamer.

Loaded to 2.82ish you can load up to 43GR of H-4350 before you compress the load and everything seems happy there.

As you know I'm still waiting for my PWS MK2 and I had considered building a .260 barrel for it but I scraped that idea after my brass issues.
Inexpensive loaded .260 ammo is nonexistent and quality brass is at about a buck a piece, bullets/primers/powder is about the same as a .308 but with the availability cheep loaded ammo and or cheep brass I'll stick to the .308 for my simiauto.   

 

[tgibson]

Base Price:$3,299

AHAHHAAAHAHAAA!!  NO NO NO!!!  I don't think I'd ever pay that much for a rifle!  I'm getting the sponsored shooter deal on it.   
Adios,
TG

[fj40mojo]

AHAHHAAAHAHAAA!!  NO NO NO!!!  I don't think I'd ever pay that much for a rifle!  I'm getting the sponsored shooter deal on it.   
Adios,
TG

I kinda figured, but OMG for that price it should have a motor and be able to transport you, it, and 1K of ammo to the range.

[fj40mojo]

I'm not going to brag about group sizes on a forum, but you are welcome to come out and shoot mine. You wont be disappointed.

Done, and for the record neither rifle dissapoints.

[JWaddell]

Don't know if you saw this yet but your brass issues are not a problem anymore

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/new-products/1

Making me think of building a 260!!!

[fj40mojo]

Don't know if you saw this yet but your brass issues are not a problem anymore

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/new-products/1

Making me think of building a 260!!!

$1/pc. Money ahead to buy Lapua .308 at $.50/pc and neck it down.

[J Mack]

Making me think of building a 260!!!

Stop thinking and start building!

[JWaddell]

$1/pc. Money ahead to buy Lapua .308 at $.50/pc and neck it down.

Then spend the time to fire-form, then clean, then trim, then turn, and still have an inferior product to the Lapua stuff. Sometimes that extra 50 cents and all that free time is worth it!

[JWaddell]

Stop thinking and start building!

HA HA! I want to, but I blew my allowance on my new 3 gun shotgun. I did come by a rem 700 action in 243 so the transition to a 260 will be easy. Whose barrels are you using? And what stocks are you putting them in? And where the hell are the pictures!?!?!?!?!

[fj40mojo]

Then spend the time to fire-form, then clean, then trim, then turn, and still have an inferior product to the Lapua stuff. Sometimes that extra 50 cents and all that free time is worth it!

That is for "Lapua stuff". Maybe the price of the .260 headstamped stuff will come down after it becomes more common like the Lapua .308, but after seeing first hand what JMack is doing with these rifles I think the necked down piece may be a superior piece of brass in the end. Yes, more prep work is involved but when you can claim Sub 1/2MOA from a rifle no matter the nut behind the trigger with ammo loaded on a progressive press, you must be doing something right.

[J Mack]

HA HA! I want to, but I blew my allowance on my new 3 gun shotgun. I did come by a rem 700 action in 243 so the transition to a 260 will be easy. Whose barrels are you using? And what stocks are you putting them in? And where the hell are the pictures!?!?!?!?!

Let me know when you’re ready.
I have good luck with Krieger Barrels and that would be my recommendation.
I like the Badger M-2008 actions if you don’t mind the extra (lb) over the REM clones and that’s what I used on my switch barrel rifles.
I have one ACIS 2.0 and I think this is one of the best stocks for the shooting that I do, I also have one McMillan A-5 here and an ADJ A-3/5 on the way that I’m a bit less excited about. 
Sorry no pics but you’re welcome to come out and shoot them.

but when you can claim Sub 1/2MOA from a rifle no matter the nut behind the trigger with ammo loaded on a progressive press

Not an exact QUOTE.
I think we might have just got lucky with your groups today and we should start spreading rumors 

[fj40mojo]

Not an exact QUOTE.
I think we might have just got lucky with your groups today and we should start spreading rumors 

Not spreading rumors, just impressed with what I saw. I'd be interested in trying neckturning and a bushing die to try and duplicate your neck tension process and the results, as I've never been able to turn out groups like that despite my attention to detail with my charge weights. Is there any way to adjust your trick neck turner for a longer cartridge ie 6.5x55?

[J Mack]

Finally got a chance to shoot one of my .260’s out to two hundred yards today and now I can say I’m truly impressed with this cartridges ability.
My one hundred and two hundred yard group sizes are darn near the same size and I still have not worked up a load yet.   

[Nomad]

Great information been thinking of going to a 6.5X284 or the 260....

[J Mack]

Great information been thinking of going to a 6.5X284 or the 260....

IMHO you can not go wrong with the little .260, 600 yard ten shot groups that you can easily cover with your hand and we had it out to 968 yards on an 18" circle before our spotting ability was letting us down.
I just picked up some new steel from MGM and we're headed out in the morning  to see if we can stretch our legs a bit.

Let me know the next time you're in town and you can give one of mine a try.

[ida83704]

have you tried the 144gr Lapua Scenars?
BC of .640 or so

[J Mack]

have you tried the 144gr Lapua Scenars?
BC of .640 or so

I’d like to try some different bullets some day but I bought 2000 of the 139gr Lapua Scenars so I’m married to them for awhile.
We went out yesterday with the 139’s and our longest shot measured our 24”X36” target at just a whisker over .5 Mill wide that should have put us at just over 1800 yards, any way the wind was 12 to 15 MPH most of the day and gusty up to 23MPH at times and that little bullet performed amazingly well making shooting at those distances almost easy.   

[Blury 1R]

Cool thread, neat build, thanks JMACK!

[J Mack]

We went out Saturday and shot some rock chucks with the .260’s
First thing I need to say is these rifles are an absolute pleasure to shoot; we had an epic day with the three of us shooting suppressed .260’s hammering chucks out to 537 yards with the average yardage 330  it was literally like shooting fish in a barrel. We stopped counting confirmed kills after 30 chucks and stopped talking about kills after somewhere around 60, I’m guessing 80 – 100 chucks lost their life to the dreaded .260 that day.
The only disappointment was the splat factor, with the 139Gr Scenar bullet you would have to hit them in just the right spot to get the high flying gut spitting acrobatics and with the distances we were shooting and the relatively small sweet spot we had very few airborne inside out horror shows.
I’m loading some 140Gr A-max’s and we are hopeful these will put on a better show.   

[ID Tactical]

J Mack,

You should try the 123 Amax and push it at 3k+ fps.  That SHOULD produce the desired "spin" factor...

BTW, I just picked up a Savage 12 LRP in .260.  Now I'm just waiting for my scope...   

Rob

[J Mack]

J Mack,

You should try the 123 Amax and push it at 3k+ fps.  That SHOULD produce the desired "spin" factor...

BTW, I just picked up a Savage 12 LRP in .260.  Now I'm just waiting for my scope...   

Rob

ID

Do you know the length of the 123Gr A-max bullets? I would like to give them a try but I'm not sure how they will work in our setup.
We run 1-8 twist barrels same as your Savage and get caught in the catch 22 of free bore / mag length  and long bullets / compressed loads so we opted for a .090 free bore the ideal length for the 139Gr Scenar in a 1-8 barrel.
I sometimes think a .080 free bore and a 1-8.5 would have opened more options but at the time I didn't plan on shooting the lighter bullets.

[NWO]

Never had one, but have always wanted a little .260, would be great for Washington blacktails

[J Mack]

Never had one, but have always wanted a little .260, would be great for Washington blacktails

I’ve been working on getting one of my .260’s ready for hunting season with a weight reduction program and working up a load for hunting bullets.

My lightest .260 was just over 17LBS and needed to go on a diet to get under the 16LB weight limit but unfortunately even after switching some parts around it was still over weight so I decided to chop the barrel down to 20”. This barrel had just under 1000 rounds and I was just starting to chase the lands so I decided to set the barrel back 2”  and remove 2” from the muzzle and use the best 20” out of the center.

For the hunting bullets after some testing on my own and talking to some friends I settled on the 6.5mm 130GR Swift Scirocco II. These bullets are extremely accurate have a high BC number and retain 98% of their weight after they expand.
I’m shooting the Scirocco at 2908FPS AVG out of my 20” 260 and my friends are getting 2989FPS AVG out of their 24” tubes plus the accuracy was phenomenal at distance. We were hammering a 5” circle on a MGM IPSC Precision Rifle Target at 400 yards enough that it got boring and we started putting hits in the eye box, we only took these bullets out to 650 yards but hits in a kill zone were still pretty easy even with a 12 to 18 MPH quartering tail wind. Shooters APP shows that I still have 1212 FT-LBS of energy with the 130GR Scirocco at 650 yards and I can tell you that we severely dished my ¼” AR 500 target after a day of shooting it.

All and all I’m pleased with the short .260 and it came in at 16LBS with the bipod and muffler.

[ID Tactical]

Got my .260 outfitted.  Bought a Savage LRP in .260 and mounted one of the new SWFA SS 5x20x50 scopes.   Trigger is VERY light from the factory.  Overall weight (unloaded) is 14lbs 11ozs....

[Nealio]

J Mack,

Would it be better to run a long action so you can load these .260's longer, or do you think a Savage short action would be good enough?