backpacking caliber ?

[agunforeachhand]

I know there are better calibers for bear and other big game then .357mag and .45acp. But out of the 2 I just mentioned which one would you prefer out in the woods and why?

[ID Tactical]

.357 for Energy & Penetration...

[fj40mojo]

.357 for Energy & Penetration...

+1

[e11charlie]

Recoilless rifle for penetration and utter destruction.    [ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]     Serious note most of the people up in Fairbanks carried short barreled .44s as those pesky grizzlies laugh off most everything else.   

[agunforeachhand]

That would make backpacking not fun e11 lol
I know .44mag is the way to go, but it is not an option at the moment

[adrewiske]

Neither, carry a shotgun! Having hunted in grizzly country since I was a kid, the gun of choice is a shotgun. It's the only gun proven to stop a bear dead in his tracks, even the F&G guys recommend it.

[High Wall]

I'd take the .357.  Besides the two advantages already mentioned (power and penetration), I'd also mention accuracy and flatter trajectory.

Oh yeah, plus with the .357 you don't have to look in the weeds for your brass.

[agunforeachhand]

Neither, carry a shotgun! Having hunted in grizzly country since I was a kid, the gun of choice is a shotgun. It's the only gun proven to stop a bear dead in his tracks, even the F&G guys recommend it.

The options are .357mag and .45acp.

Next question then. I shoot my sp101 great and my blackhawk awesome, which would your prefer and why? A 2 1/4 barrel from the sp101 or the 4 5/8 barrel from the blackhawk. Will the barrel length affect the velocity and penetration alot or hardly at all?

[ID Tactical]

The longer the barrel the better velocity. 

Velocity = Energy & Penetration...

[agunforeachhand]

The longer the barrel the better velocity. 

Velocity = Energy & Penetration...

So would you feel safe with a SA .357?

[Precise]

Neither, carry a shotgun! Having hunted in grizzly country since I was a kid, the gun of choice is a shotgun. It's the only gun proven to stop a bear dead in his tracks, even the F&G guys recommend it.

+ 1 on a 18" barrel shotgun. Two rounds of buck shot for head shots to blind the bear, and slugs to follow up to take it down. From what I've been told about bear attacks, it's not deterent force, it's stopping power you need if they're coming at you.

[agunforeachhand]

SHOTGUN IS NOT AN OPTION PEOPLE.

I know what cal would be better then .357mag or .45acp but these are the 2 I am limited to.

[carharttfarmer]

take which ever 357 you shoot better but use a 158 or heavier bullet

but there was a guy early this year that shot and killed a griz in ak with a 45acp

more rounds into it the better

[agunforeachhand]

take which ever 357 you shoot better but use a 158 or heavier bullet

but there was a guy early this year that shot and killed a griz in ak with a 45acp

more rounds into it the better

buffalo bore baby

[Nomad]

 The 357 you can go as high as a 200gr bullet, 180gr by Hornady and Winchester built
a 180gr in the Supreme line.
 Would go with the 4 4/8 barrel first and the short barrel because of long and
accurate shooting weight is a factor in the back country.....
 Speed in reloading may reloading in some cases........Reloading for shot shells
home load in CCI shot shell with a duplex or triplex load for birds and snakes
 and varmints.........
 Have had a 45 never carried in the back country as it has its place never
thought as a back country round, unless the varmints are of a nature you may need to.

[NGO]

.357    loaded heavy

[J Mack]

.45 supers loaded in your ACP 185gr  bullets @ 1300FPS.
Best of both worlds

[agunforeachhand]

.45 supers loaded in your ACP 185gr  bullets @ 1300FPS.
Best of both worlds

J Mack hook me up then 

[Nealio]

I know there are better calibers for bear and other big game then .357mag and .45acp. But out of the 2 I just mentioned which one would you prefer out in the woods and why?

Honestly it depends on what you're shootin..  

For anything up to 200 lbs I'd go with the .357 Mag

For Bear I'd run a 185 gr or 200 gr plated bullet in 45 ACP.  I dunno if the .357 would penetrate enough.

Of course you know the real answer to this is a 10mm double stack..

[J Mack]

J Mack hook me up then  

Come by and I'll give you a mag full

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Super

[birddog1989]

.357 out of the Blackhawk loaded as hot as you can stand.  I would recommend a 158 or 175 hard cast bullet.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=766375

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=491684

[Nomad]

 Take a look at 357 magnum {silhouette loads} with the 180 and 200 gr bullets
One of my son's shoots silhouette with a 357 at 225 meters iron sights laying on the ground
shooting off his calf to stabilize the pistol the pistol has a 6" barrel
 Its penetration I have shot through a railroad tie, its about 8" threw
and came out the other side that as our 180gr load we hunt with and carry
 in the woods......
 The load is for heavy frame and you can down load to a model 19 Smith safely
We have dropped to safe standard. Mainly just hunting and you can buy a 180gr load.
 Would it kill a bear shot placement ........ yes  

[agunforeachhand]

Come by and I'll give you a mag full

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Super

That does look pretty bad ass J Mack. Have you shot alot of this?

[zona5101]

SHOTGUN IS NOT AN OPTION PEOPLE.

I know what cal would be better then .357mag or .45acp but these are the 2 I am limited to.

well then , you might as well just pour bbq sauce on yerself, eh?

[J Mack]

That does look pretty bad ass J Mack. Have you shot alot of this?

I went and spent a day in Texas with Ace Hindman one of the developers of the .45 super and had him build me a pistol in 1990.
I have shot this round in factory guns but you would be wise to have a heavy recoil spring and a buffer system if you where going to shoot them often, .45 supers use thicker brass but as always look for bulges from unsupported chambers and hot loads.

Ace's son Garey is caring the .45 super torch now.
http://www.acecustom45s.com/   

[Nealio]

Take a look at 357 magnum {silhouette loads} with the 180 and 200 gr bullets
One of my son's shoots silhouette with a 357 at 225 meters iron sights laying on the ground
shooting off his calf to stabilize the pistol the pistol has a 6" barrel

Jeesus, I didn't know you could shoot something that big out of a . 357  !!

[carharttfarmer]

Jeesus, I didn't know you could shoot something that big out of a . 357  !!

yup 180s at 1300fps plus it is a magnum ya know 

[NoviceHunter]

I know there are better calibers for bear and other big game then .357mag and .45acp. But out of the 2 I just mentioned which one would you prefer out in the woods and why?

Unless you're hunting or violating some other bear risk thing, whichever you're more proficient with.  2-legged is a bigger worry than 4-legged if you're taking the usual precautions, IMO.  What gun is the .45?  I don't like a 2" barrel or a single action, really.

Which of your handguns is lightest, fully loaded?  :-)

[Nealio]

yup 180s at 1300fps plus it is a magnum ya know 

Well yeah I didn't know they made anything bigger than a 158 
A 200gr .357 bullet must be like 1" in length..

[NGO]

In Colorado, for handguns your loads have to produce a minimum of 550 ftlbs at 50 yards rated by the manufacture. A 357 barely crosses that depending on how hot you load it and a 45 ACP does not even come close to it.

Having done alot of Colorado hunting I use to carry my .357 with 180 gr loads...loaded hot.

Several hunters thru the years that we would make friends with always said you really do need a.44Mag instead. Unless you hit that brain , your not stopping that bear.
These guys would laugh at the guy with a .45ACP...man stopper not bear stopper, they would say.


Also if you decide to make a brain shot, don't aim between the eyes...you will likely destroy it's sinus cavity and piss the bear off even more...Aim lower shot into the nose...the bear brain is lower in the base of the skull and protected by very hard bone mass.

[NGO]

I tried to use paint to come up with a diagram, since I could find one...




see all that nice hard sloping surface....that's where you don't want to hit.....

[RGinIdaho]

If you are stuck on the .357 load some hard cast lead. The penetration with properly made gas-checked lead is phenominal.

These guys make some great slugs. I kept their 310gr in a .44mag in camp when we hunted AK.

http://www.castperformance.com/Categories.bok?category=Cast+Performance%3A357+Cal.


Truth of the matter is; the bears aren't what you should be worried about. It's the two legged critter laying in wait at your rig. Your EDC will do fine here...

[agunforeachhand]

I tried to use paint to come up with a diagram, since I could find one...




see all that nice hard sloping surface....that's where you don't want to hit.....

NGO I have been told to aim in the bears mouth also, being as a bear usually has his mouth open to tear you a new arsehole. Would that be true? Seems to me like it would be.

[agunforeachhand]

Unless you're hunting or violating some other bear risk thing, whichever you're more proficient with.  2-legged is a bigger worry than 4-legged if you're taking the usual precautions, IMO.  What gun is the .45?  I don't like a 2" barrel or a single action, really.

Which of your handguns is lightest, fully loaded?  :-)

The .45acp is a 5in RIA tactical.
As for my lightest handgun that would be my glock 23

[NGO]

NGO I have been told to aim in the bears mouth also, being as a bear usually has his mouth open to tear you a new arsehole. Would that be true? Seems to me like it would be.

true....I just lok at the drawing and connect aloine to where the brain cavity is......

shooting at the area on top of the "between the eyes" will likely just piss the bear off...

month open shoot in the mouth is a good idea.

[agunforeachhand]

true....I just lok at the drawing and connect aloine to where the brain cavity is......

shooting at the area on top of the "between the eyes" will likely just piss the bear off...

month open shoot in the mouth is a good idea.

Thanks NGO. chances are if a big old bear is standing over me with his mouth open I will end up just crappin my pants

[fj40mojo]

Thanks NGO. chances are if a big old bear is standing over me with his mouth open I will end up just crappin my pants

Just take a fat friend along. As long as you run faster than your buddy you're good. If things happen the way you are predicting here your bud will be at a disadvantage anyways since he'll be trying to run in several inches of shit.

[WTF]

Thanks NGO. chances are if a big old bear is standing over me with his mouth open I will end up just crappin my pants

Then the bear will spit you out cause you taste like shit. sounds survivable to me.

[WTF]

Just take a fat friend along. As long as you run faster than your buddy you're good. If things happen the way you are predicting here your bud will be at a disadvantage anyways since he'll be trying to run in several inches of shit.

our scuba instructors always told us, if we see a great white shark, stab your diving buddy, and swim away.

[agunforeachhand]

Just take a fat friend along. As long as you run faster than your buddy you're good. If things happen the way you are predicting here your bud will be at a disadvantage anyways since he'll be trying to run in several inches of shit.

Chances are I will have at least one of my kids with me.  I know I can out run them

[fj40mojo]

Chances are I will have at least one of my kids with me.  I know I can out run them

Some species eat there young, apparently agunforeachhand's feeds his to bears. Nice. Reeeeal nice.

[NGO]

So the real question is what caliber .357 or 45acp would be more likely to put your buddy down...for the bear....hence giving you a chance to get away.


In that case .45acp

[agunforeachhand]

Some species eat there young, apparently agunforeachhand's feeds his to bears. Nice. Reeeeal nice.

Not just kids fj, whoever the hell is standing next to me when the bear is charging lol


Maybe i should just carry some dynamite in the backpack

[luvmy45]

While I would not forgo a firearm on me, when in Bear country, I have heard that Bear Repellent (industrial pepper spray in large containers) can be quite effective.

Here is a quote I would agree with from some research on Bear Spray,

"To rely on the spray as protection while ignoring other bear country essentials---such as storing food out of reach of bears or in bear-proof containers and making noise in thick brush--is just plain stupid. "This stuff isn't brains in a can," he said.

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF12/1245.html

[agunforeachhand]

While I would not forgo a firearm on me, when in Bear country, I have heard that Bear Repellent (industrial pepper spray in large containers) can be quite effective.

Here is a quote I would agree with from some research on Bear Spray,

"To rely on the spray as protection while ignoring other bear country essentials---such as storing food out of reach of bears or in bear-proof containers and making noise in thick brush--is just plain stupid. "This stuff isn't brains in a can," he said.

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF12/1245.html

Thanks for the info BK but it still isn't one of the calibers I mentioned And I thought I was the only one that didn't read the entire posts

[luvmy45]

For the price of a box of good quality ammo, it's a great addition to have if your backpacking in bear country. Just thought you might like a viable alternative rather that a "change the caliber" post.

Just sayin...

PS - I would carry a .45, cause is the biggest caliber I own, and I know how to shoot it, and I can load 9 rounds and change mags for more if needed.

Just sayin 

[agunforeachhand]

For the price of a box of good quality ammo, it's a great addition to have if your backpacking in bear country. Just thought you might like a viable alternative rather that a "change the caliber" post.

Just sayin...

PS - I would carry a .45, cause is the biggest caliber I own, and I know how to shoot it, and I can load 9 rounds and change mags for more if needed.

Just sayin 

Really thanks for sharing the bear spray BK that really is good info. 

Chances are I would just take my glock 23 along with the .357 because I shoot a glock pretty good and with 13+1 I wouldn't have to reload.

Just sayin

[NoviceHunter]

As for my lightest handgun that would be my glock 23

That'd be my pick (with either corbon 140gr dpx, hornady 180gr XTP's, or some full house 180gr FMJ's.)

[RGinIdaho]

Jeesus, I didn't know you could shoot something that big out of a . 357  !!

I have a great silhouette load for Speer's 200gr TMJ and IMR4227.

[BadtzMaru]

Truth of the matter is; the bears aren't what you should be worried about. It's the two legged critter laying in wait at your rig. Your EDC will do fine here...

I won't discount bears or humans as potential threats but what I'm hearing more of lately is people getting stalked by wolves.  Just a matter of time before someone is dinner for the big bad one.  I have usually gone fishing and on short hikes with no gun at all - seriously starting to rethink that.  I also thought about sitting by a tree in full camo trying to sound like a turkey  .  At least I'm armed then, but .....

[Mascampo]

If I am carrying in the woods, then I will carry with my 4" GP100 with Double Tap Ammo at over 700 ft/lbs. I was looking at the Buffalo Bore and all I can say is wow, it is closer 800 ft./lbs.