Lee 1000?

[Jaggy13]

Hey everyone,
I have decided to try some reloading, I set out on a recommendation to pick up a Dillon 550 but a friend of mine gave me a Lee 1000 to start off with.
I know almost nothing about reloading and plan to take it very slow and learn as much as I can over the next few months before starting the process.

My thought is; I should be able to at least get familiar with the process with the lee.
My questions are; Will the dye's work in anything else?
Will it even be worth trying to learn on this equipment?

Thanks in advance.

[popsgunner]

Yes and yes, great for pistol calibers, won't really hold up for rifle stuff, too much plastic. Lee dies are great as well. Read up, have someone show you the basics, go slow, follow the book specs and you'll be  G2G.

[Jaggy13]

Thanks for the reply,
I have 9mm dye, and also want to reload .45.
Just didn't want to spend the $$ to set up .45 if it ment spending $$ in the wrong direction.

Gonna take it nice and slow with the 9mm and re-evaluate at that point.
 

[RevolverLove]

Jaggy Don't feel like the lone ranger. I took the reloading class at Cliff's in May and am now going to give it a go myself. I was willed a Lee 4 Turret press and carbide dies for .38 Special and 9mm. I got the Lee reload book at Cliff's also and have read that. Should have it all ready to go sometime next week. Just need to get some powder, bullets and primers and give it a go!

Should be fun!!

[fj40mojo]

I have showed several here the ropes and am willing to do it again if you can work around my schedule. RGinIdaho and Spiff have put on classes as well. PM me if you are interested.

[tgibson]

In case you decide to upgrade...http://www.boiseshooters.com/index.php/topic,10168.0.html
Adios,
TG

[luvmy45]

My first progressive was a Lee 1000 for my .45... the primer tray always gave me fits, but other than that it was a good press for the price.

Learning how is more imporant than the press... Cliffs is a good place for local help and parts, and there several of us here that are more than willing to help out the reloader... just don't over do the powder and you should be ok... load a few, shoot them, make sure they feed, etc...

Things that you really need to have:

1. Good scale (digital or balance beam doesn't matter)
2. Calipers!

There are a ton of reloading sites, but if you stick with the major powder manufactures to start with, you will be safe and learn the process.

The satisfaction of shooting what you load is great!

[Jaggy13]

Thanks for all the great info!
My motivation is to build consistent ammo. Nothing "hot".
I just want to build loads that I can trust, and can afford to shoot!

I will definitely be taking up the offer for a loading lesson.
Part of the concern I have with the Lee is that its in several pieces in multiple boxes and looks to have been there for a few years.
I have no idea if it's even complete. I've been reading up on the process as much as I can, I think seeing a press in action will help me understand the entire process and see in action what parts do what.

I do have a decent starter kit with no investment, other than a few rounds once I start producing. I have a tumbler the press and dies for a few calibers. I'll probably wait to buy a scale or calipers until I have read a manual and saved up some brass.

I was able to find a couple threads on some other forums addressing the Lee 1000, and do feel more confident that my setup will work for me just fine.

As for the Dillon... I would love to, but for now, I am on a pretty strict budget. Once I have the process down, I could see enjoying the efficiency of a 650.

[luvmy45]

You have some gun shows coming up, good place to look for some used equipment like scales and calipers.

Also, if you live here in Boise, Cliff's has press's setup at his shop and you can go and see, touch, feel them and see what parts or pieces you may be missing. Cabela's also has the Lee 1000 setup, but they dont' have as many parts and pieces as Cliffs does. He's a good resource locally for reloading equipment.

Watch Harbor frieght for their digital calipers to go on sale, you can get them for 14 at times when they have them on sale. They look identical to the 30 Frankford Arsenal ones from Midway and Cabela's.

Good luck!

[carharttfarmer]

if your just startin out with pistol rounds have you decided on a powder? if you havent consider unqie from allint powders you can use it for everthing and its pretty forgiving if you screw up =as in hard to blow a gun up with it even if you dont know what your doing

[Niner]

The Lee carbide dies are great, especially in 9mm as it is a little harder to get the perfect crimp on those.  The Factory Crimp die makes it a breeze.
I have heard the Lee 1000 is a little finicky to get set up right, can't help you there.  I have loaded probably 50K+ on the Classic Turret press which really removes a lot of potential operator error the way it is set up.  Not as fast as the true progessives but I can still get 250-300 per hour out of it if the brass is already cleaned and decapped separately.
I would also recommend that you get the Lyman Pistol reloading manual, as some of the loads in the Lee manual are hotter than what you'll find in other manuals.  The Speer manual also has a special section on reloading 9mm and the idiosyncracies associated with that caliber - you can just check it out at the library and copy that section if you want to save the $25-30 bucks on getting another manual.

[Jaggy13]

if your just startin out with pistol rounds have you decided on a powder? if you havent consider unqie from allint powders you can use it for everthing and its pretty forgiving if you screw up =as in hard to blow a gun up with it even if you dont know what your doing

Thats the info I want right there!
Thanks!

Stopped by Cliff's today.
Really great experience.
Can't believe I have never been in there.
Thanks for the recommendation.

Lyman Pistol reloading manual, already on the shopping list with calipers.

At this point, I am going to at least setup the Lee but am heavily leaning toward a 550b...

My over all investment is still reduced because I have a tumbler and a few other goodies I don't need to buy.

[fj40mojo]

I'm caliper rich, I've got a Stainless Steel RCBS 0-6" Dial that I'd part with for $15 if your interested.

[Grumblecakes]

Ditto on the scale and calipers. I would also reccomend the nosler load data the loads in there have been dead on for me. Those little books at sportsmans with load data are great too for referening loads across diffrent manufacures.

[Jaggy13]

Got the Lee bolted down tonight, and picked up the lyman big book. I think the beginning section will help me understand the science before the application.

$15 calipers sounds great to me!

[RevolverLove]

.....
I would also recommend that you get the Lyman Pistol reloading manual, as some of the loads in the Lee manual are hotter than what you'll find in other manuals.  The Speer manual also has a special section on reloading 9mm and the idiosyncracies associated with that caliber - you can just check it out at the library and copy that section if you want to save the $25-30 bucks on getting another manual.

I'm surprised to hear that. In reading the Lee book section on gunpowder he makes it sound like his data is backed off by 5% or so for safety. I don't get it. If I'm shooting a .38 Spl 125 Grain Jacketed bullet, using Unique powder should not all the grain charges be the same. Why the variance between Nosler, Speer,Lyman and Lee??

[carharttfarmer]

they all do there own testing and it can vary by bullet design=even at the same wieght there can be differnce in the jacket thikness or design
and look at the load data they might be using differnt primers
and or testin it in real guns or test barrels



plus if they were all the same people wouldnt buy more than one manual

[RevolverLove]

I see Thanks. So it's not a life and death matter. Fantastic. I can see that keeping track of primers, powder and bullet is important. Thanks for all the help guys. As soon as I can build my bench and set my stuff up I'll be loading. I plan to do 12 and then head to the range. If all goes well I'll load up several hundred. I'm shooting IDPA now and I need the ammo to practice

[Jaggy13]

I was wondering the same thing...
I have the lee data, a speer book and the Lyman. All seem to be a little different.
Also the Lee data is the only one that converts grain to CC and the powder disc had CC measurements instead of grain...
I haven't really had a chance to search for an easy conversion just an observation.

On Powder, I see to many out there to even know where to start. The reviews I have read about about Unique say its extremely dirty.
Also I see different manufacturers of Unique, is that a type more than a brand?
What happens when I decide on a powder and its not in my load book for a specific round? Are there comparable powders?
Just seems like the more I learn the more questions I have...
Thanks all

[fj40mojo]

I was wondering the same thing...
I have the lee data, a speer book and the Lyman. All seem to be a little different.
Also the Lee data is the only one that converts grain to CC and the powder disc had CC measurements instead of grain...
I haven't really had a chance to search for an easy conversion just an observation.

On Powder, I see to many out there to even know where to start. The reviews I have read about about Unique say its extremely dirty.
Also I see different manufacturers of Unique, is that a type more than a brand?
What happens when I decide on a powder and its not in my load book for a specific round? Are there comparable powders?
Just seems like the more I learn the more questions I have...
Thanks all

The variance in data is due to the fact that some loads are tested in actual firearms while others have been tested in test barrels ie more of a lab type scenario, also variations in bullet construction like jacket thickness materials, and mfg can also effect end pressures. ALWAYS work work up to published max charges, just because the book says it's safe doesn't mean it safe in your gun, it means it was a safe pressure in the publishers testing. Every gun is a little different.

Lee provides conversion to CC (volume) from grains (apothecary weight) because their Lee loader system uses the little scoops rather than a weighed charge. All powders have a different bulk to them. Grain size and shape determine how tightly they randomly fit together in a given space. This can be overcome to some degree by the way they are poured into that space. With a drop tube I have been able to fit 2 grains more of a particular powder into the same case vs. just pouring it in through a powder funnel. Get a beam type scale at minimum and weigh your charges, it is the only way to really know what you are putting in there.

As for powders, I've shot Unique in my .45s exclusively for 20+ years and have never had a problem with fouling a gun. As far as I know Alliant is the only maker of Unique. Some other mfgs may make a similar powder to compete with Alliant but I've never seen another mfg marketing Unique. Load data is not interchangeable. For example, don't use IMR4895 data if you are loading H 4895 or vice versa, they are not the same powder, don't let the numbers confuse you. There are lots of data sources including the internet. Most of the powder mfgs provide some data for their powders free of charge on line.  Use those sources.

Something to consider when choosing any powder or any other component whether it be for pistol of rifle, what are you trying to accomplish by reloading? Some do it to save money and look for the most bang for their buck. Some do it for performance and are looking to ring every drop of accuracy or velocity out of a given gun. Some do it just because they are so immersed in the shooting sports that it is just one more thing they do as part of their lifestyle. Take some time and figure out for yourself why you want to reload. It will have some bearing on the powder and other components you buy.

Lastly, find a mentor to show you the ropes. No one wants you to have a bad experience with a firearm, most of all you.

[popsgunner]

+1 FJ, well said, the other thing we see all the time is that even though it says 44mag on the side of that Taurus, Rossi or other foreign named gun DOESN't mean it will handle the presures of that round on a regular basis, like Smith or Ruger would.
Tone your loads down for these guns and it will last longer and be more accurate.

[carharttfarmer]

On Powder, I see to many out there to even know where to start. The reviews I have read about about Unique say its extremely dirty.
Also I see different manufacturers of Unique, is that a type more than a brand?
What happens when I decide on a powder and its not in my load book for a specific round? Are there comparable powders?
Just seems like the more I learn the more questions I have...
Thanks all

unque isnt as dirty as some people make it out to be also it was reformulated a couple years back to be cleaner burning but it is a good powder for just about anything  you can also go to the powder manufactures websites a get load data for free

[luvmy45]

Dirty is a relative term...

Where you notice it the most is shooting indoors with poor ventilation... and it's not so much dirty as smoky... lead reloads tend to smoke and look dirtier than plated or jacketed reloads.

The end of the gun gets residue on it, after 500 rounds of my reloads it requires a wipe down... but it's not "dirty" per se.

I wouldn't base my powder choice on how dirty it is when starting out... 1) Price 2)Availability, what is around here that is priced right and available... then buy it, and learn how to work a load up, shoot it with different bullets and see what you like... then start changing the powder around to lock in your load.

[Grumblecakes]

i more or less self taught my self to reload. I have made a few mistakes but with vigilance nothing bad happened. i load on a lee hand press and have to do things in discreet steps. i missed a case when charging them and got a round stuck in the barrel. if something doesnt seem right when firing your loads then check your weapon and your cases for any bad signs, a squib could ruin more than your day.

just a little encouragement. i started with 9mm and moved on to 40sw and 223. be warned - reloading is addictive. since January Ive loaded over 2k 223, 3k 9mm and around 500 40sw. it defiantly adds a whole new dimension to the sport.

[RevolverLove]

....

Lee provides conversion to CC (volume) from grains (apothecary weight) because their Lee loader system uses the little scoops rather than a weighed charge. All powders have a different bulk to them. Grain size and shape determine how tightly they randomly fit together in a given space. This can be overcome to some degree by the way they are poured into that space. With a drop tube I have been able to fit 2 grains more of a particular powder into the same case vs. just pouring it in through a powder funnel. Get a beam type scale at minimum and weigh your charges, it is the only way to really know what you are putting in there.



Lastly, find a mentor to show you the ropes. No one wants you to have a bad experience with a firearm, most of all you.

I don't want to sound like a commercial, But, I really like the Lee book. It gives a starting Grains measure followed by the cc Volume then the Auto Disk measure and lastly which Lee dipper to use. Holy Hand Load batman if you screw it up you are just not paying attention. My system has the auto disk measure, the dipper and a scale. I had planned on using the Auto Disk and then check the weight on the scale. Also using only the starting load in the book. Since I'm using a jacketed bullet on both (115 gr 9mm and 125 gr.38, Unique powder can be used for both. Lee gives load data on a zillion powders and I've yet to get into the science of burn rates, pressures and whatever else to determine the differences between them. I can see that I could possibly turn into the target shooter by day and mad scientist re loader at night. My reasons to do this is cost and availability. I don't want to be subjected to this crazy deal of ammo being scarce on minute and then on sale the next. Re loading is mush cheaper if you shoot more. Well, shoot more!!

[tgibson]

. be warned - reloading is addictive. since January Ive loaded over 2k 223, 3k 9mm and around 500 40sw. it defiantly adds a whole new dimension to the sport.

OH BUDDY!!!  Have I got a deal for you!!  I'll give you all the components you want and you can load until your hearts content!!  I've loaded just about 45k rounds in the last four years and I HAAAAATE it!!  What a pain in the butt!  I just want to shoot!  Let me know!   
Adios,
TG

[Jaggy13]

great information! i picked up a lb of unique today as well as a scale, media and some brass. deprimed a few but haven't set the othe die's yet.
I do really like the fact that unique is in most load data, also as others have said, it will be a little harder to double charge...
my main motivation is cost savings.
I do however enjoy taking the sport "to the next level".

Thanks again for all the help. Its even better knowing I will run into some of you at the range!

[RevolverLove]

great information! i picked up a lb of unique today as well as a scale, media and some brass. deprimed a few but haven't set the other die's yet.
I do really like the fact that unique is in most load data, also as others have said, it will be a little harder to double charge...
my main motivation is cost savings.
I do however enjoy taking the sport "to the next level".

Thanks again for all the help. Its even better knowing I will run into some of you at the range!

Jaggy, Come out and Shoot IDPA!! It's a ton of fun, nice folks. I've done the Nampa shoot for the last three months. I plan on making it out to the Parma shoot as soon as I can.

[Jaggy13]

I plan to start shooting idpa next month. havent been in a couple years and miss it.
gonna try and hit the first time shooters meeting, I'm a little rusty on some of the rules and procedures.

[RevolverLove]

I plan to start shooting idpa next month. havent been in a couple years and miss it.
gonna try and hit the first time shooters meeting, I'm a little rusty on some of the rules and procedures.

Next shoot is at Parma this Sat the 28th I believe. Next month because of the State Shoot Nampa won't have one. The new shooter night at Impact in the first week of Sept i think. Check the calander on the Parma club website. They list almost everything.

[luvmy45]

Come on out to next week's match... bring your gun and  150 rounds and you'll be good to go. Doesn't matter if you remember the rules or not, the SO's are great and will coach you. If you have the wrong gear, we'll let you shoot it anyway the first time, and chances are someone will loan you want you need for the match.

Of all the shooting sports, IDPA is my favorite, although after yesterdays match USPSA is running a close 2nd.

[Jaggy13]

Come on out to next week's match... bring your gun and  150 rounds and you'll be good to go. Doesn't matter if you remember the rules or not, the SO's are great and will coach you. If you have the wrong gear, we'll let you shoot it anyway the first time, and chances are someone will loan you want you need for the match.

Of all the shooting sports, IDPA is my favorite, although after yesterdays match USPSA is running a close 2nd.

My only concern is I'm on call that day. Need my laptop and a cell connection in-case I get a call.
gear I have covered, eye's, ears, holster, mag holster, Kimber 45 and 3 wilson mags.
Is there good cell service out there?
I'm sure I'll do fine, just have a couple questions I'm sure other participants could help me with the day of  the shoot. (Just don't want to test the patience of the SO)

[luvmy45]

Depends on your service provider. Sprint is good, the rest are iffy.

With my verizon, if I'm in the right spot I'm ok... if you drive up to the top of the entrance your ok as well.

If you found a good spot to leave your cell, and just check on it, if you got a call you could high tail it up the hill to good service and goto work.

The things we do so we can shoot! Gotta love it!

[Jaggy13]

Sprint service, so I'm hoping its all good.


moment of truth... Got 6 rounds loaded up tonight. gonna be honest, just a little nervous to load them up.
Everything spec's out.
I ended up with unique powder, took me a while to get the powder disc in the Lee to give me the grains I wanted.
Its not what the lee guide says it should be. for example lee specs 4.2 grains or .49 CC and lyman mim load is 4.4 - max load was 5.8 (9mm 115 grain) When I measured the dump of powder the scale showed considerably lighter grain that what the lee manual showed it should be. Through trial and error I ended up with a dump that gave me 5 grains even.
Lee's specs for FPS and lymans where consistent with the grain/fps difference, and 5 grains was what I had decided to load up.

One of the helpful hits I received was to get closer to 1100 fps to operate the slide on my 1911 chambered in 9mm.

I then compared some factory rounds to my loads with a micrometer as well as the lyman book.

It took a bit to get the die's dialed in so I wasn't flaring the brass too much and to get the bullet to seat at the depth I wanted.

Lastly, as warned... the primer tray is the weak link in the lee loader.

As long as no one throws up a red flag, I am planning on giving the rounds a test fire and see how it goes.

[luvmy45]

One of the things I like about the Lee 1000 is the auto case feeder. The primer tray, yeah... I found that I would have to bump it with my hand on every stroke to make sure the primers were moving around... never tried it but maybe a good cleaning and some dry lube on the primer tray and feeder arm might move things along... hmmm..

Here is a cheap case gauge... take the barrel out of your gun... and then drop each round in to the chamber to see if it goes in and out...

Also when loading new bullets, I will load up a magazine... go out to the backyard and aim at the ground, and cycle the entire mag through the gun by pulling the slide back and letting let go... that way I know if I the bullets will feed. too short and too long and you will have problems.

If you make it to Parma, just ask where pit zero is... it's a live fire pit, down below... you can go down there anytime with you gun during a match and handle your gun and ammo and shoot to make sure things are functioning.

Hope I make it out to meet you, should be a great match!

[Jaggy13]

So far, looks like I'll be there. Watched some of your video's too. I like it!
IDPA is only 2 shots per target now? We used to do 2 torso and 1 head.
Been a while....

[carharttfarmer]

to bad you cant just step out side a fire them into your lawn like i do when im checkin a load

you might be suprised when you jump to loadin 45 acp the charge wieght fo unquie with a 230 gr lead is 5 grains to i load my 9mm and 45 both with around 5gr saves time not havent to sdjust my powder measurer

[luvmy45]

Shots on target are Dependant on stage design. usually 2 per target, but sometimes it's 3 per, or 2 body 1 head, or even 6 per target.

Sometimes it's only 1 shot, had a course earlier this year... 1 shot... head shot only to the hostage taker... that was fun.

It is a blast, check out the state match videos from the past couple of years on the Parma web site, under photos.

[Jaggy13]

I grew up on a farm, used to shoot off my front porch....
Thats actually where I learned to shoot and what we used to do for fun about every day.
City boy now... May have to run out tomorrow night and give a test fire, now that I have it dialed, I want to crank out some ammo!
Thanks for the heads up on the .45 load data, hadn't thought of that yet. I still need die's and a shell plate before I can load those.

[Niner]

Jaggy if you are using a new Lee Auto Disk Powder measure you better weigh your charges every 20-30 rounds or so.  I had the same problem with the charge not being equal to what the Lee data said it should be.  Over time, the charge increased through the measure but still didn't ever get quite up to what the Lee book said it should be.  The powder sticks to the inside of the disk when it is new due to static electricity.  I found out on some of the Lee loading boards that running some powdered graphite through the first time would solve this problem, or you could just keep loading and your charge would eventually creep upwards towards what the Lee book says. I take this into consideration whenever I switch to a new disk size that I haven't used before.

[Jaggy13]

Niner, good to know!
As I have only loaded 6 rounds to test, I watched each and weighed each to make sure all powder was going in and that they were all uniform. My disc dispensed the same amount each time, so I hope its going to stay consistent. the Unique powder is also fairly large flakes, and none was staying behind. Lastly, this unit is well used but unfortunately I have no idea how much use or what disc's are used or in new conditions.
If I change a disc, I will certainly be on the look out for the "static cling" issue.

Schedule is looking good for a test fire this evening...(anyone have a riot shield I can borrow?)
Also looking good for Parma Saturday morning. (Gonna be an early morning!)
I'm excited! Probably won't sleep a wink Friday night...

[Jaggy13]

**update**
went out tonight and fired my test rounds. everything went to plan.
Its good to know everything worked correctly.
thanks again for all the great support!

[Grumblecakes]

Those first few always made my heart beat a little fast. But once you realize you did everything right and things turned out ok its a great feeling. Still gotta be ever vigallent whe charging and seating cases.

[popsgunner]

Try to document your reloading data, charges, bullets, OAL, crimp measurement, etc. a small notebook will suffice. gOOD TO LOOK BACK UPON.
oTHER THAN THAT, SHOOT SAFE AND ENJOY, WELL DONE.
 

[RevolverLove]

Good Job Jaggy!!! I'll be getting mine all set up this weekend and I'll also let you know how it went. I'm starting with the light loads for .39 Spl.

[Jaggy13]

Try to document your reloading data, charges, bullets, OAL, crimp measurement, etc. a small notebook will suffice. gOOD TO LOOK BACK UPON.
oTHER THAN THAT, SHOOT SAFE AND ENJOY, WELL DONE.
 

Going to do just that.

Next, I'm going to setup for .45 acp. I'm going to pick up another plate ($8 well spent in my opinion)
Dies and a shell plate.
I can get the 4 die set for not much more than 3. includes a factory crimp die. I'm going to get it, just to have it but do I install it stead of the standard seat die? Or just install later and run ammo through if I need to? or a single stage press?

Another .45 question. I have had some advice from others to load a "Lighter" load for target. If so I will most likely need a custom recoil spring as well. Is this worth it? Advised? If so what recipe and bullet weight do you recommend?
I'm shooting a stock Kimber SIS Government.

[fj40mojo]

I've shot lighter "target" loads with 200grn LSWCs for years in my .45ACPs and never bothered with a lighter recoil spring without any problems at all. I'd wait to determine that there is a problem beofre spending money on something that isn't broke.

[J Mack]

Another .45 question. I have had some advice from others to load a "Lighter" load for target. If so I will most likely need a custom recoil spring as well. Is this worth it? Advised? If so what recipe and bullet weight do you recommend?
I'm shooting a stock Kimber SIS Government.

Like Fj says
I load lighter "target" loads with 185grn SWCs over 4gr's of Bullseye for years in my .45ACPs and never bothered with a lighter recoil spring without any problems at all. I'd wait to determine that there is a problem before spending money on something that isn't broke.

[Jaggy13]

Thanks for the input on the target loads, seems like I could build 200 gr or smaller for a lot less than 230 gr.

Any thoughts on the die question above?

[luvmy45]

You don't need a lighter spring... but you'll enjoy it more 

I use a 12.5lb spring in my 1911 with my game loads. 230gr at about 750fps,

The recoil spring is kind of a misnomer... it really does'nt do anything for recoil, but it does ram the slide forward after the shot... heavy recoil spring will cause your gun to dip as the slide slams forward... lighter spring, gun will be eaiser to shoot for followup shots.

There are other tricks to tuning the gun as well... and this is for games that we play with gun... not for self defense. For self defense stick with the factory recommend spring.

[fj40mojo]

Thanks for the input on the target loads, seems like I could build 200 gr or smaller for a lot less than 230 gr.

Any thoughts on the die question above?

No you do not install the factory crimp die in place of your seater. Totally different animal. You will set your seater die to seat the bullet and take all or most of the bell out of the case and the factory crimp will finish the job.

[Jaggy13]

No you do not install the factory crimp die in place of your seater. Totally different animal. You will set your seater die to seat the bullet and take all or most of the bell out of the case and the factory crimp will finish the job.

So its one of those things I have just in case? Or should I make it a practice of running every round through it? I have a three stage press and seem awkward to have 4 dies...

[RGinIdaho]

Recoil springs do act to slow the slide so that the frame is not battered.

[RGinIdaho]

So its one of those things I have just in case? Or should I make it a practice of running every round through it? I have a three stage press and seem awkward to have 4 dies...

If your size die is within tolerances and your taper crimp is properly adjusted, then the factory crimp die is a wasted step.

Use your barrel (out of the gun) as a cartridge guage, that will check for proper sizing and OAL issues. The barrel method only indicates that the loads will work in your gun, not necessarily others.

Proper taper crimp for .45acp is .470". Some go as tight as .468. I like to go with .469 and have run my loads in many 1911's and a few glocks without issue.

I'm not familiar with the LEE 1000. 3die press and a powder station/die or 3 dies total including powder?

The best process is to seat and crimp as seperate steps. You can seat and crimp in one step but it might deform some bullet nose designs. Not really a big deal with pistol bullets but if freaks some folks.

[luvmy45]

Recoil springs do act to slow the slide so that the frame is not battered.

I've read articles going both ways... mostly from the gaming point of view... and hence the invention of the shok-buff, which I do run, and does prevent me from doing a slingshot type slide drop on my gun... but I don't do that so it's never bothered me.

I've also read that steel framed guns don't have many issues with frame battering, but the ???ium type lightweight frames can suffer frame issues.

I've seen some threads on the time difference between heavy springs and light springs... and the difference in the speed of the slide in recoil has been negligent... however the speed in the slide moving forward does change...

Then there is the recoilmaster guide rod... but we are into a different thread with that topic. :-)

[RGinIdaho]

BK,
I agree, we are drifting...

But;

I don't know about all that. But as you already know, there are a FEW things that I don't know.

For many years;

lighter loads + lighter springs = good to go

heavier loads + heavier springs = good to go

Timing the gun for faster sight recovery is a good thing. My sights return to the same spot with my loads + 18.5lb spring. Of course I run closer to 170pf in .45acp. If I drop the load then I see the sights dive deeper into the notch and need to go to a 16lb.

[luvmy45]

Drifting away... I'd say we agree

Bringing it back... unless you want to run all your bullets through the die again with the Factory crimp die, just go with how the press is set up. I loaded thousands of .45 on my Lee1000 when I had it... the .45 and 9mm take a taper crimp so seating and crimp in the same process is ok... I prefer the taper crimp in it's own station, but the Lee press does work the way it's designed.

Load up a few hundred and have some fun!

[Jaggy13]

loaded up 50 for this weekend, seems like I had some "smiley" faces on a couple of the bullets just above the brass.
Does that mean my crimp die is too high?
out of 50 I had 2 that failed to chamber, the rest ran perfectly.
Both had noticeable imprints on the bullet from the crimp die.

[luvmy45]

Pull the barrel out of the gun and drop each round into the chamber - This is the easy way to chamber check your rounds.

Did you get a caliper? Are they to spec?

[Jaggy13]

yup, have a franklin digital caliper that friend gave me.
Haven't double check those 2 rounds yet, but was curious if my crimp die is set up incorrectly.
at the range, I just set them aside. didn't want to mess with them.

[luvmy45]

The seating/crimp die should be a taper crimp, if I'm not mistaken... it's not rolling the brass to crimp it, so there shouldn't be any mark from the "crimp" part of the die.

It is possible that there is some bad brass, I get about 1 out of every 200 or so in my brass that is bulged or something and won't seat. That's what I get for scrounging range brass all the time :-)

Also, check the seating stem... it's 2 sided one for RN one for SWC, if your getting marks in your bullets, it may be because the stem is flipped the wrong direction... probably not, but just something to check.

If you get at chance, post a pic or two of them, nothing beats a photo. :-)

[coyotehunter]

Jaggy13,
Don here, I work at Cliff's and have used a Pro1000 for several years.
I have  loaded about 16,000 rounds on it now so if I can give you a few tips on making it easier to live with, stop by the store.
If need be, as time allows, you can stop by my house and will let you see what I have done to mine to make it hum.
I load 38's at about 600 rounds per hour with the bullet feeder in place.
I don't use the bullet feeder for the 230 gr. 45's because the feed fingers seem to drop bulletts that don't have a crimp grove.
Let me know if I can help.
Shoot safe and have fun.
Don

[Jaggy13]

Jaggy13,
Don here, I work at Cliff's and have used a Pro1000 for several years.
I have  loaded about 16,000 rounds on it now so if I can give you a few tips on making it easier to live with, stop by the store.
If need be, as time allows, you can stop by my house and will let you see what I have done to mine to make it hum.
I load 38's at about 600 rounds per hour with the bullet feeder in place.
I don't use the bullet feeder for the 230 gr. 45's because the feed fingers seem to drop bulletts that don't have a crimp grove.
Let me know if I can help.
Shoot safe and have fun.
Don

I've been in a couple of times, Don I will definitely take you up on that offer!


Attached is an image of the bullet I referenced above.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[luvmy45]

That doesn't look like a crimp die mark, almost looks like the bullet was crooked when it started to seat and the case was pushed into the bullet.

What bullet is that Berry's?

[Jaggy13]

 Got them at sportsmans. not berry's. other white box that were 115 gr and 24.99 for 250... I know, not much help.
So, do I need a bigger flair? I turned it down a bit because the bullets where just falling in the brass when I first set it up.

Also, measured the rounds and tested with my barrel last night. The rounds are within spec, but... my barrel seems to not like them that close to max at the base of the round. .3885 (.391 being book)
Is that where that Factory crimp die would come in handy?

[popsgunner]

Are you flaring the case mouth enough to allow the bullet to sit in about a 1/16 of an inch ?, then when you taper crimp adjust it just enough so you see a slight"polish ring" around the case mouth.
Anytime you are in Nampa come by the shop, I run dillon 650's and can show you what I mean about flaring and crimping.
Pops

[birddog1989]

Attached is an image of the bullet I referenced above.

Looks like it went in kinda cock-eyed.  The main purpose for a Lee Factory crimp die is to separate the crimp step and seating step.  You have a tendency to get better, more consistent ammunition doing that, at least that's what they say  .  The main benefit of it is that the die has a carbide sizing ring.  When you are seating cast bullets it will re-size the big ones so you are less likely to get rounds that fail to chamber.  I was having problems with that a few years back and checked them in a cse gauge just to make sure nothing was wrong with my gun.  It turned out it was my reloads so I slapped a factory crimp die on my progressive press and haven't had that problem since. Good shooting.   

[RevolverLove]

Well I finally got my table set up and my press is ready to go. I'm playing around trying to get my Lee Safety scale calibrated. One question.

I'm loading 38 Spl 125 Gr Jacketed using unique powder. The book says to use the .5 Lee dipper. The starting load is 5 grains. When I dip in a full even .5 dip on the scale it looks like it reads 4.7 Grains.
The Reloading book does say the dipper may not give a charge up to the starting grains. But they don't say how far off it would be. Just that it's Safe.

So how do I know if A) the scale is correct? Yeah when I zero it out the balance beam does come up to the little zero mark. (It IS VERY sensitive however) But how do I know it's really working right.

And how do I know how much in grains that little .5 dipper holds?

Or am I just being an old lady and worrying to much?   

[popsgunner]

Throw the dippers away, get the Lee powder dispenser that mounts on the press, You can NEVER dip the same amount every time, lots of frustration not enough loading, loaded tons of rounds using the disk system, never had a problem. You've got  a scale great job.

[RevolverLove]

Loaded up my first .38 Spl tonight. All went well except that like Jaggy, I'm getting little smiley faces on the bullet during the crimp process. I checked after seating the bullet and there is no marks. The bullet is within spec for overall length. I did dial in about a half turn more crimp and the marks are much less. Can you put too much crimp in?

I also screwed in the die tighter against the shell plate and that also helped. Still getting them to some degree on 3 out of 4 rounds.

Tomorrow is the big day as I will take them to the range. Should go fine.

My auto disk is throwing way light. Using the disk the book says weight in at only 4.6 grains. I'm loading for 5 so I have to use the trickle powder. Got to be a better way than having to dump out the charged cae to weight it, trickle more powder and then funnel it back to the case.

[RevolverLove]

*** Update***

Ta Da!!!! All went well at the range. Shot 18 rounds from my GP-100 357 Mag. I shot 38 spl of course.
Using the little Lee dipper at .5cc which the book says is less than the starting grains of 5 but an "acceptable" charge. Ha!! Wrong!! It was like a pop gun!! Zero recoil wussy loads. Next were the ones I loaded to 5 Grains exactly. O.K. that was acceptable but not like a factory load. Next I'll try something in the middle like 5.1 or something silly. Could not tell any difference between the light crimp or the heavy one.
I can see why everybody writes down every little thing. You need to to experiment and get the correct load you want.

[Grumblecakes]

i only recently started taking detailed notes for my loads. it makes a world of difference to have notes to look at when you go back to the press when deciding what direction you wanna take your load. i even mark my brass with a sharpie so i can identify the cases later and check for pressure signs and what not. and i agree, the dippers are garbage. the biggest use for mine is to get the powder onto the scale.

also if multiple people use the weapon/ammo its good to take notes on them too. i've hand a few low recoil 9mm loads i worked up for the wife, they worked great for me, but almost every round was a ffe for her.(limp wrist)

[J Mack]

I can see why everybody writes down every little thing. You need to to experiment and get the correct load you want.

i only recently started taking detailed notes for my loads. it makes a world of difference to have notes to look at when you go back to the press when deciding what direction you wanna take your load. i even mark my brass with a sharpie so i can identify the cases later and check for pressure signs and what not. and i agree, the dippers are garbage. the biggest use for mine is to get the powder onto the scale.

also if multiple people use the weapon/ammo its good to take notes on them too. i've hand a few low recoil 9mm loads i worked up for the wife, they worked great for me, but almost every round was a ffe for her.(limp wrist)

Try: Reloaders' Reference, It's a life saver.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/reloadersrfrnce/
Added for Vista and 7 users:
I have recieved some messages from users having trouble running this package on Vista. Vista's default security settings will not allow users to change files in the \program files path. This is what creates the problems. 1 be patient with the install, it is slow, but will complete even on vista. 2. follow the instructions below to change the permissions on the Reloaders Reference folder

to allow user writes to the files.

1.) Open c:\program files and right click the Reloaders Reference folder.

Note: on x64 systems this will be the Program Files (x86) folder.

2.) Choose properties from the drop down menu.

3.) On the properties tab, choose security.

4.) On the security tab, click the advanced button at the bottom of the tab.

5.) In the advanced tab, click users in the list, then edit.

6.) In the permissions dialog, click the Allow box on the top line (Full Control) then click ok.

7.) When it returns to the Advanced tab, check the replace all existing box at the bottom of the tab and click ok.

8.) Click ok again to return to the security screen.

9.) Click users in the top window and look at the permissions in the bottom portion, full control should now be checked.

10.) Click ok to close the security dialog.

RR should now run without the read-only or linking problems.
Windows 7 Notes:

Quote:
1.) Open c:\program files and right click the Reloaders Reference folder.

Note: on x64 systems this will be the Program Files (x86) folder.

2.) Choose properties from the drop down menu.

3.) On the properties tab, choose security.

4.) On the security tab, left click to highlight "users" under the "Group or user's names".

5.) Below the "Group or user's names" box you will see, "To change permissions, click EDIT". Left click the edit button.

6.) That will open another dialog box, "Permissions for Reloader's Reference". Again left click to highlight "users" in the "Group or user's names" box.

7.) Below that box, you will see another, "Permissions for Users". Click the "full control" allow button. It will automatically check all the boxes except "Special Permissions". Leave that box unchecked.

8.) Click the "Apply" button in the bottom left hand corner.

9.) Click "Okay" and the "Permissions for Reloaders Reference" dialog box will close.

10.) Click "Okay" at the bottom of the "Reloaders Reference Properties" dialog box.

[Jaggy13]

I've gone through my initial 250 rounds now. I had to tighten my crimp a touch, adjust the flair and have fine tuned a few other things. now its running very smooth and reliable.

Last thing is to find a place I can get some bulk bullets without breaking the bank...   

Thanks to all for the great advice.

[J Mack]

Last thing is to find a place I can get some bulk bullets without breaking the bank...   

Link: http://www.boiseshooters.com/index.php/topic,10504.0.html

[RevolverLove]

I've gone through my initial 250 rounds now. I had to tighten my crimp a touch, adjust the flair and have fine tuned a few other things. now its running very smooth and reliable.

Last thing is to find a place I can get some bulk bullets without breaking the bank...   

Thanks to all for the great advice.

Also look at Powder Bond they are in Greenleaf and they ship for $5 flat. Great prices, very good quality.
http://www.powerbondbullets.com/products.html

Also did you every figure out what was making those little smiley faces on your bullets. I'n getting the same thing. Increasing the crimp seem to help but I don't know if there is such a thing as over crimping. It's not when I seat the bullet as I have check them then. Also when they enter the crimp die it's kind of rough, not smooth like the others.

Any thoughts??

[Jaggy13]

I had to increase the flair so the bullet would seat slightly lower before the seating and crimp die.
Increase the flair too much though and the bullet would just fall in the casing...

[RevolverLove]

Thanks I'll play around with that. I like the Lee system a lot. The Auto-Disk is good but of course using the number disk Lee says is not even close to the Min charge for .38 Spl. Same for the Dipper the .5cc dipper which Lee says is "Close" measures out to 4.6 grains. Min charge for .38 with 125gr JHP is 5.0 So those first rounds from my GP-100 were like a cap gun. The 5.0 grains were O.K. and now I'm using 5.2 and it feels like it should. I just don't want to go to a match and have light loads.

Otherwise the Lee stuff is great. Time consuming but great.

Next will be the 9mm.

[Jaggy13]

not sure where I posted it, this thread has really grown...
I had the same experience with the auto disc.
I opted to purchase a digital scale and after talking to many people I settled on load data before I ever de-primed a case. I wanted a 5 grain load with unique because it would just meet power factor. So I kept changing the disc until it read correctly on the scale.

That load was also a safe point in the middle of the load options. Some of the first advice I received about selecting load data was less powder is worse. He suggested I start somewhere near the middle and work one way or the other to what I want for my load.
There were a few considerations for me as well. My primary 9mm that these loads are for is a 1911 frame. Given that, it has to manipulate a fairly heavy slide and there fore "Hotter" loads would provide more consistent feeding. I don't want too hot though, because it is for speed...

I would love to chrono some of my loads, as I'm sure you would to make sure your hitting the "sweet spot" in your load. I'm sure someone here has one we could borrow or recommend a range that has one on hand.

my only complaint about the lee is the primer tray. Runs fine for a while, then if a primer fails to seat it seems to ruin everything and take several minutes to set back up correctly.
For now my loading needs are fairly modest so the Lee is perfect. I will either learn to use it better/live with it or replace with a Dillon.

[luvmy45]

For the priming tray, have a plastic dental pick on hand... they work well for fixing the issue 

[Jaggy13]

heh, I've been using a scribe.
I wish they were ferris...

If one fleck of powder gets down there, the primer will fall off that press and jam in there. Haven't had one detonate yet, but I'm anticipating it....

[luvmy45]

I never had one detonate in the primer feed path... not to say it couldn't happen, but I loaded 1000's of rounds on my Lee1000 without a premature detonation.

[Jaggy13]

good to know. I've seen a few of them folded up from getting pinched.

[RevolverLove]

I'm hand priming at this time. I bought the RCBS model because it's safe with ANY primer. The Lee hand primer is not safe with Federal primers. Gee why is that???

With all the problems I read about auto primers and having to fix problems and such I decided to go the hand route. 35 min to de-prime clean pockets and reprime 50 cases. another 35 for powder and bullet and crimp.

As for the Auto Disk, I have the same experience as Jaggy. Had to use a different disk to get a 5.2 grains drop. I've been weight checking every 5th load and everything is great. Is it acceptable to weight every 15 or 20 instead?? I have ordered the Lee Adjustable Insert bar that has a micrometer setting. Should be able to get and grain setting I want with the usual experimentation.

Got the little smiley faces to stop. As Jaggy suggested playing with the amount of flair and bullet depth.

What is the story on tumbling. I have not done that step yet. Good,Bad, necessary optional?? And how do you get the corn crap off the cases??

[fj40mojo]

I'm hand priming at this time. I bought the RCBS model because it's safe with ANY primer. The Lee hand primer is not safe with Federal primers. Gee why is that???

With all the problems I read about auto primers and having to fix problems and such I decided to go the hand route. 35 min to de-prime clean pockets and reprime 50 cases. another 35 for powder and bullet and crimp.

As for the Auto Disk, I have the same experience as Jaggy. Had to use a different disk to get a 5.2 grains drop. I've been weight checking every 5th load and everything is great. Is it acceptable to weight every 15 or 20 instead?? I have ordered the Lee Adjustable Insert bar that has a micrometer setting. Should be able to get and grain setting I want with the usual experimentation.

Got the little smiley faces to stop. As Jaggy suggested playing with the amount of flair and bullet depth.

What is the story on tumbling. I have not done that step yet. Good,Bad, necessary optional?? And how do you get the corn crap off the cases??

Weight check frequency depends on the powder you are using and your measure. I've found with mine that with extruded and flake powders I weigh at least every tenth charge, ball powders are so predictably repeatable that sometimes I just visually check to make sure the thimble hasn't moved and weigh every 25th.

I've used the RCBS press mounted priming system w/o any problems for years. I've heard good things about the hand priming systems but have never felt that my current system was in need of replacing so never tried  it.

Tumbling isn't necessary, but it's nice and I do it. I clean and polish before sizing, ideology "clean brass is easier on my sizing dies".  This is especially true for all the auto stuff that ends up on the ground and I don't have to pick media out of flash holes as the decapping pin cleans it out for me when I size. Never had a problem getting the 

corn crap

off. Media separators work.

 :)Little smiley faces?

[Jaggy13]

I started loading some black bullets and everything is going great except I can't seem to control the depth.
I have the cap off of the crimp die and can see the internal cap raise when the round enters but it's still seating the bullets too deep. 1.169 is spec, I've been shooting for 1.158 (most of the factory ammo I have measured that) and the black bullets are closer to 1.08.
Is this anything to be concerned about?
I did have to tighten my crimp die, spec was allowing the bullet to fall out of the brass when loading into mags, but have tried loosening it and adjust the flair.

*Edit*
Took everything down tonight and examined a little more. The black bullets are not as aggresive a taper as the others I have tried. With the die out I can see a lip inside the die that does not allow the bullet to enter any further. Basicly its seating the bullet weather the seating portion of the die is engaged or not. I found some Lee literature that advises to "fit" the die to a specific bullet type.
It looks like I could ream out the die to work with more options. Any objections?

[Jaggy13]

The saga continues...
been a little frustrated with the powder disc as of late.
about 1 in 20 rounds is coming up light... Extremely light! instead of 5.2 grains, I'm getting 1 grain or less.
I'm saving up for a dillion, but with all the gear I've been putting toward my kit, I'm not quite ready to make that plunge yet.
I know there are some Lee loaders out there, any advice for the powder disc to be more consistent?
I thought it was just a volume issue, but its not. I have the powder station full.

[J Mack]

I’m not familiar with the Lee powder system but I will wipe all the accessible areas of my Dillon powder system with a drier cling free sheet when I notice powder sticking to the sides and this seems top help.