Red dots for AR platform

[Riverhouse]

What Red Dot manufacturers do you gentlemen like and why?  I have a cheap $50 one right now that I am going to replace.  Thanks.  EOTech, Aimpoint, ACOG, etc, etc.

[J Mack]

I use an Aimpoint T-1 on my AR and an Aimpoint comp M4S on my backup AR.

Durability and battery life are the only real advantages IMHO but still worth the extra money. Both these scopes are on 24-7 and I change the batteries out every 6 to 8 months before they’re dead.

[birddog1989]

I like and use Eotechs but must admit the battery life of the Aimpoints is very impressive.  I have been thinking of getting at least one for worst case senerio.

[Precise]

I have an Eotech 552 on my M-4gery

[Shortmag]

I run an Eotech 553 and love it.

SM

[agunforeachhand]

Kind of off the subject, but if you have a red dot on your rifle is it against the law to hunt with it? If so then does anyone use their black rifles for hunting? And if anyone does then why all the red dots? Just for looks?

[Joey]

Kind of off the subject, but if you have a red dot on your rifle is it against the law to hunt with it? If so then does anyone use their black rifles for hunting? And if anyone does then why all the red dots? Just for looks?

As of last year, Idaho Fish & Game will allow the use of electronic sights for Big Game hunting.

[agunforeachhand]

As of last year, Idaho Fish & Game will allow the use of electronic sights for Big Game hunting.

Thanks Joey. 

[technique]

I prefer Aimpoint T-1 or H-1 but any old Aimpoint is quality kit.
ACOGs are also high on the list, Ta31F or the RCO.

[ajc281509]

I have an Aimpoint CompM3 on one rifle, it is a great sight.
I also have an Aimpoint H-1 that is waiting on a Larue mount before I can use it.

[fj40mojo]

EOTech here. I like it. I've had an Aimpoint before (old one) and like the EOTech better.

[mopeman440]

Aimpoint T-1 here.

[ballardw]

And if anyone does then why all the red dots?

Old eyes. Iron sights getting to be quite problematical.

[Riverhouse]

Thanks for your input.  I appreciate your input.

[kaen3e]

Trijicon RMR dual illum.  no batteries needed and small foot print!

[RGinIdaho]

Aimpoints here.

[Keebsley]

Aimpoint H-1 in a Larue mount.

[codethree]

I have an EOTech 512 with a GG&G Accucam Quick Detach Mount. Works well for me.

[Riverhouse]

Any of these in conjunction with a carry handle?  I am wondering if I should mount on top of the carry handle which puts it pretty high off line of sight or to put out in front on the fore end quad rail.  Thanks.

[Precise]

I have an EOTech 552 with a LaRue Quick Detach Mount

[TrooperBrian]

I run an EOTech 512. As of a few years ago (not sure if it has changed), EOTech is the only manufacturers of true holographic weapon sights. Other "red dots" like Aimpoint, et al still suffer a bit of parallax at various ranges.

But like noted above, their battery life is not so great. If you don't notice the reticle blinking (four hours battery life remaining), then the next time you turn it on, it won't. Its happened twice in the field now, thank god for backup sights. 

[Precise]

and spare batteries.... 

[911InsideJob]

I have been reading great reviews on Vortex's newer red dot, the Strike Fire.  Vortex is the same company that makes the Viper optics...the cost is approximately $150.00.  Food for thought.

[jordonhurd]

I have been looking at the Vortex red dot and the Primary Arms red dots. Does anyone have any experience with these?

[agunforeachhand]

I personally don't want to rely on batteries PERIOD. Iron sights for me.

[Bill, Idaho]

Do you have a Model T style crank start on your car?   

[agunforeachhand]

Do you have a Model T style crank start on your car?   

I am to young to understand what you are talking about? Could you being old enough explain this to me

[birddog1989]

What about a Trijicon Tri-power?

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/parts_new.cfm?categoryID=11

[luvmy45]

Define red dot...

1x red dot that you use for CQB type work? Low profile and easy to see around, thru with BUIS

1x - ??xxx red dot that you use for CQB to 500yds or so?

I use a Millet DMS-1, that is a 1x-4x scope with a red dot type reticle... usually set to 1x for CQB work that I can use with both eyes open, but has magnification for farther distances when requried... and a red dot for evening/night time use.

The scope is fully usuable even with dead batteries in the day time.

For me, the price and functionality of this type of scope works well. As my intended use changes I may have multiple optics or guns with different optics as needed/wanted

[broncovan]

It depends on what you mean by red dot.  For close quarter stuff, CQB, then actual red dots w/out any magnification are the way to go.  But since I don't do any CQB work, then I went with an ACOG TA31.  4 power magnification with ranging abilities.  No batteries required.  Top of the line optics, can't be beat when looking at magnified optics for a tactical application.

Aimpoint, very nice, but big and clunky.  Some models have a very long battery life.  Very rugged.

EOtechs are very nice also, nice low profile good battery life with proper model.  Not quite as rugged of construction.

ACOG, some have magnification, 0-4 fixed power, all are tritium powered, some have a fiber optic input for lighting.  The nice thing about the fiber optic models is that it gives you only the brightness that you need.  No intensity adjustments to make, always just the right amount of light so the chevron or doughnut doesn't wash out your scope.  Even at night with a few stars out, you get see a very faint red chevron, not enough to affect your night vision, but enough to see.  If it's the inside of cat black, you get a faint green glow from the tritium "battery".

IMO, ACOGs (I really, really like my TA31) are the way to go.

[Riverhouse]

For my purposes of a red dot.......1x magnification for CQB out to 200 yards at the most generally for this gun.  My other's have higher magnification scopes on them but this is the carbine with 1x red dot.

[Tomac]

I've used numerous Aimpoints, Eotechs & Trijicons over the years, all have their strengths & weaknesses.

The best KISS optic (IMHO) is the Trijicon RX30 w/no batteries, switches or adjustments to worry about (it uses tritium & fiber optics for reticle illumination) and a huge FOV through the 42mm objective. However, reticle washout is still possible under some lighting conditions.

I love the Eotech's circle/dot reticle, it seems faster for me than a simple dot. However, battery life is relatively poor, the control buttons aren't as fast/easy to use as the Aimpoint's rotary switch and they have more reported problems than Aimpoints.

Aimpoints win, hands-down, when it comes to ruggedness & insane battery life (50K-80Khrs of 24/7 use on a single battery) and w/the Aimpoint Micro you have a small optic that weighs less than half that of the other major contenders.

After completing my wife's lightweight STG build w/an Aimpoint Micro H-1 I decided that shaving nearly half a pound off my own rifles was a good thing! Got a great deal on the H-1's w/a halfway decent mount from Botach for $450: http://www.botachtactical.com/aih1pade.html
Tomac

Wife's lightweight STG w/Aimpoint Micro:

One of my STG's now w/Aimpoint Micro:

[Riverhouse]

With the Aimpoint H-1's, they come with a 4 MOA dot.  Is that too big?  Just right?  Some of their other models come with the 2 MOA.  From my understanding, 4 MOA is just fine with CQB but for longer ranges it starts to cover up the target therefore for pinpoint accuracy it is less desirable.  I don't think it will matter to me since most of my shooting will be within 100 yards.

[technique]

With the Aimpoint H-1's, they come with a 4 MOA dot.  Is that too big?  Just right?  Some of their other models come with the 2 MOA.  From my understanding, 4 MOA is just fine with CQB but for longer ranges it starts to cover up the target therefore for pinpoint accuracy it is less desirable.  I don't think it will matter to me since most of my shooting will be within 100 yards.

Just turning down the brightness settings helps with the longer ranges. I've gone out to 400yrds with a micro shooting a two legged critter sized targets.

[Riverhouse]

Just turning down the brightness settings helps with the longer ranges. I've gone out to 400yrds with a micro shooting a two legged critter sized targets.

That's good to know.  Thanks for the input. 

[luvmy45]

4 MOA is equal to 4" at 100 yards and 8" at 200 yards and so on,  you can do the math for 2 MOA dot. 

Depending on your target size, that will tell you if the 2 or 4 MOA dot is preferable... at close distance's it's not an issue, but if your shooting a ground squirrel at 100 yards... a 4 MOA dot may cover them up, and at farther distance's, shooting small targets precisely is harder to do.

Zombies out to 200 to 300 is no problem with a 4 MOA 

[RGinIdaho]

I luv's my 2moa. My load is 2moa high at 100, on at 200 and 2moa low at 300. You do the math!

[Tomac]

With the Aimpoint H-1's, they come with a 4 MOA dot.  Is that too big?  Just right?  Some of their other models come with the 2 MOA.  From my understanding, 4 MOA is just fine with CQB but for longer ranges it starts to cover up the target therefore for pinpoint accuracy it is less desirable.  I don't think it will matter to me since most of my shooting will be within 100 yards.

I find the Micro's 3.4moa dot great out to about 300m and faster to pick up than the 2moa Aimpoints (YMMV). It's my understanding that the 2moa Aimpoints were designed w/magnifier use in mind.
Tomac

[Riverhouse]

I find the Micro's 3.4moa dot great out to about 300m and faster to pick up than the 2moa Aimpoints (YMMV). It's my understanding that the 2moa Aimpoints were designed w/magnifier use in mind.
Tomac

That's what I have been finding out.  For the CQB, it is a faster acquistion with the larger dots and the 2MOA is great for 100+ yards and that it was more geared towards those shooting further and/or using the 3x magnifiers.  Thanks for your input.

[Mascampo]

I have an EoTech 512 that takes 2AA batteries. It holds zero quite well. I even switched it between two ARs and it still held zero. 

[Mascampo]

I personally don't want to rely on batteries PERIOD. Iron sights for me.

Come on, man! They are not talking about throwing some red paint on iron sights and calling that a RED DOT sight. 

[agunforeachhand]

Come on, man! They are not talking about throwing some red paint on iron sights and calling that a RED DOT sight. 

 

[Joey]

I've been switching back and forth, between the ACOG n Aimpoint.

Can't decide which I like better?
I'm leaning towards the ACOG, until I think about CQB?
In which on a mansized target, the ACOG would still be combat accurate?
And also the price - However research alot, and spend once is what I'm after?

Had the ACOG out a few nights ago, and the low light optics are what had me thinking ACOG?

Just my thoughts - Be Safe

[technique]

I've been switching back and forth, between the ACOG n Aimpoint.

Can't decide which I like better?
I'm leaning towards the ACOG, until I think about CQB?
In which on a mansized target, the ACOG would still be combat accurate?
And also the price - However research alot, and spend once is what I'm after?

Had the ACOG out a few nights ago, and the low light optics are what had me thinking ACOG?

Just my thoughts - Be Safe

Do you have a ACOG model with BAC? If so CQB shouldn't be an issue. Just hold slightly high, you're GTG!

[Joey]

Thats what I was thinkin?

[HD-DVD]

What's the thought on a cheaper RDS like the Bushnell Trophy TRS-25? It's the one Cabelas had on sale for $80 a few months ago and is pretty much an Aimpoint Micro clone. No doubt a $25 Barska or NC-Star likely will disappoint but where do you draw the line and say "good enough".

I'm having good luck with mine so far with 5.56/,223, it holds zero well (cowitnessed to my irons). I have to say it's real light which is a plus. Anyway I guess time will tell and if you want to be sure you get the Aimpoint. I'm gambling to save the money and do have the irons to fall back on.

[Tomac]

What's the thought on a cheaper RDS like the Bushnell Trophy TRS-25? It's the one Cabelas had on sale for $80 a few months ago and is pretty much an Aimpoint Micro clone. No doubt a $25 Barska or NC-Star likely will disappoint but where do you draw the line and say "good enough".

I'm having good luck with mine so far with 5.56/,223, it holds zero well (cowitnessed to my irons). I have to say it's real light which is a plus. Anyway I guess time will tell and if you want to be sure you get the Aimpoint. I'm gambling to save the money and do have the irons to fall back on.

If just for range use, Primary Arms sells a variety of excellent budget optics. If it's for possible "serious social use" then save your pennies for the Aimpoint/Eotech of your choice.
Tomac

[No-One]

There are quite a few options in the 1-4 powered optic market now that may be something to consider as well . Lit reticles that perform kind of like a red dot with a little extra oomph for when things get out past CQB ranges .

[HD-DVD]

I noticed that Cabelas has the Bushnell Trophy TRS-25 on sale again for $80.

[SNAFU]

I have a Vortex Stikefire Red/Green Dot on my ar.

Been a great scope for the price, Only down side is the odd battery size.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-strikefire-red-dot-scope-for-ar15



Includes a screw on 2x Magnification lens

Sportsmans sells them FYI.

[Kcboats]

I picked up one of those cheap chinese copies of an eotech and an acog so I could try em both before I bought...hated the acog, just didnt fit me right.  On the other hand I loved the eotech!!  I was glad I did the cheap route first tho (saved me money on a very costly error) and the cheapo is on my .22 and works awesome!!

[Tomac]

There are quite a few options in the 1-4 powered optic market now that may be something to consider as well . Lit reticles that perform kind of like a red dot with a little extra oomph for when things get out past CQB ranges .

This is my first venture into magnified optics on the STG-556 and I probably wouldn't have tried this if it wasn't for astigmatism that's making std Aimpoint/Eotech reticles increasingly difficult to use.

Anywho, I first tried the 1x Leupold Prismatic (shucks and other comments, what an improvement in accuracy now that I can see the target more clearly!) which appears to be as close to an Aimpoint/Eotech you can get w/a lensed optic. *Very* nice and a big improvement for my needs but the reticle (while very usable) didn't seem optimal.

Did some research, decided to give the Burris 1-4x Tac30 a try ($299 at MidwayUSA, thx to KTMNealio for letting my try his!). Unfortunately, the Burris PEPR mount I originally tried added around 9oz to the weight of the setup (+5oz for the E4 optic rail) so Manticore Arms talked me into trying their STG-556 Talon30 scope mount. Wow, only 6oz (7 if you add BUIS) so the total setup is only 1oz heavier than my Eotech/BUIS/E4 rail setup and looks *good*.

First impressions of the Tac30 were very good, a FOV even greater than the Prismatic's! (And the Prismatic's FOV is at least 60% greater than through my Eotech!) Reticle is great w/the outer circle like an Eotech reticle on steriods & a 2.4moa center dot w/BDC out to 600yds. Only complaint so far is that the illumination button, while fast to turn on, is slow to adjust and turn off (I'd rather have seen the usual rotary switch unless someone has a reason this particular pushbutton setup is superior...)

Ran to the range this morning to sight-in the Tac30 and try it side-by-side w/my Eotech, here are my observations:

Attached is a pic of the final 10-shot sight-in group at 100yds w/the Tac30 at 4x using Prvi Partizan M193. Group measured almost exactly 2"x2" (that's excellent for a military-style weapon w/basic FMJ ammo, might've been tighter but the Tac30's center dot measures 2.4" at 100yds). While the magnification certainly helped w/this, I think most of the credit goes to the Tac30's focusing ocular which allowed me to make the target very sharp & crisp instead of slightly blurry.
 
Did most of my carbine class drills w/both the Tac30 (reticle black and unilluminated) and the Eotech. Tac30 seemed at least as fast as the Eotech from all positions (including urban & rollover support-side prone) except when shooting from my back and holding the rifle out at arm's length like a pistol. Aiming from that position was still possible but slower because the Tac30 doesn't have the Eotech's unlimited eye relief so my usable FOV through the Tac30 shrank the further away it got from my eye.
 
The Tac30's reticle is superior to the Prismatic's circle-crosshairs as the Tac30's circle is very thick and easier to pick up quickly both black or illuminated (see pic) whereas the Prismatic's lines are wider and very thin making it more difficult to see against some backgrounds and slower to center on-target.
 
I remember how much I loved the wide FOV through the Eotech but compared to the Tac30 it feels restrictive now. When looking through both optics and moving my head up & down and from side-to-side I lose the reticle w/about the same amount of up & down movement but the Eotech is a little more forgiving of side-to-side movement.
 
The Talon30 mount I'm using now restricts me to using 30mm tubed optics but has the advantages of being strong, light & has provisions for BUIS on the top of the scope rings. Since you can't use BUIS through a scope this allows for instantly-available BUIS in case of optic failure just by slightly changing your cheekweld to chinweld (with an Eotech or other similar optic you either run w/the BUIS always deployed and interfering w/your FOV or take the time to deploy them in case of optic failure).
 
Eotech pros:
Combat proven, uses common AA batteries, fast reticle, no parallax, no eye relief, more rugged.
Eotech cons:
100% bettery-dependent, relatively short battery life (compared to Aimpoints), electronic switch causes slight battery drain even when turned off, control buttons slow to turn on & adjust, unusable in case of battery/electronics/switch failure, more reported problems than Aimpoints and other optics, no BDC (bullet drop compensator), doesn't correct for vision defects, BUIS interfere w/FOV if deployed 24/7.
 
Tac30 pros:
Fast reticle w/BDC out to 600yds (see pic), much wider FOV, isn't 100% battery-dependent, BUIS deployed 24/7 and instantly available, w/BUIS weighs only 1oz more than Eotech w/BUIS, magnification available for precision shooting or target identification, focusing ocular corrects for vision defects, uses the same CR2032 battery that the wife's Aimpoint Micro uses.
Tac30 cons:
Parallax at shorter ranges, doesn't have unlimited eye relief, slightly less forgiving of head position, less rugged (extremely rugged 1-4x's are available but are heavier & *much* pricier), focusing ocular must be adjusted for each user, doesn't use common AA batteries (but then battery illumination isn't needed much and even the rifle's AA taclight is more than sufficient to make the Tac30's unilluminated reticle very visible in lowlight situations), quick/easy to turn illumination on but slow to adjust (not sure if this is important as I think it could permanently be left on the lowest setting for lowlight use).
 
Conclusion: 3-gunners use 1-4x scopes almost exclusively for their combat-style competitions and don't seem to find a scope's inherent optical drawbacks or ruggedness a hindrance, even at very close ranges where Eotechs/Aimpoints really shine. My limited testing hasn't yet revealed any flaws that I consider fatal (hope to do a night shoot tonight for more comparisons) and I really like the magnfication/BDC/focusing ocular options. The non-AA battery is a minor point for me as it is rarely used, has a 10yr shelf life (w/spares in the buttstock) and is the same type used by the wife's Aimpoint Micro (she gets 50K hrs of 24/7 use on one battery) so my battery logistics are simplified.
Tomac
ETA: Just got back from the Parma range and I'm sold. Tac30 performance at night leaves nothing to be desired IMHO, is just as fast (if not faster) than the Eotech and when cranked up to 4x it's easy to make 100yd shots w/my 145 lumen taclight, even w/the reticle unilluminated (although it's faster to pick up if it's illuminated).


STG-556 w/Talon30 & Tac30:


10-shot 100yd group using Prvi Partizan M193 w/Tac30 at 4x:


Tac30 reticle at 50yds & 4x:


Tac30 reticle at 50yds & 1x:


Tac30 reticle illuminated at 50yds & 4x:


Leupold Prismatic reticle:


Leupold Prismatic reticle illuminated:

[Boise_Tactical]

I know this thread is a bit old but figured Revive it with some options.

Trijicon tripower

Aimpoint Pro

Just got a pro the other day for a demo and it is very nice for the money.

[Tomac]

I've used the TriPower and IMHO it's an excellent concept w/flawed execution. Non-std battery has very poor service life, tritium is so dim as to be nearly useless (supposedly for NV compatiblity) and the fiber optic collector glows at night when using the battery. However, loved the daylight performance & chevron reticle. If they'd brighten the tritium and replace the current battery w/an AA or CR123 then I'd seriously reconsider it.

Tomac

[emathey]

I have a Comp M3 and a 3x magnifier that I like quite a bit.  Bought the M3 used, so it wasn't terribly expensive, I never worry about it breaking or running out of battery life.  I have it set up for a lower 1/3 cowitness, the mount has a storage compartment for an extra battery, between the two batteries on setting 7 out of 10, I have over 11 years of battery life.

The magnifier was pretty expensive, I bought the Larue combo with the flip to side mount, so I can swap between unlimited eye relief and 3x magnification, which is pretty handy.

[Boise_Tactical]

I've used the TriPower and IMHO it's an excellent concept w/flawed execution. Non-std battery has very poor service life, tritium is so dim as to be nearly useless (supposedly for NV compatiblity) and the fiber optic collector glows at night when using the battery. However, loved the daylight performance & chevron reticle. If they'd brighten the tritium and replace the current battery w/an AA or CR123 then I'd seriously reconsider it.

Tomac

I agree, I used mine for day shoots and then moved back to an aimpoint. I keep hoping they will make some revisions to it because it was a great optic if they could fix the few issues with it. My biggest problem was it glowing like an oven at night... lol.