Building a new upper

[Grumblecakes]

I'm considering building a new upper in the next few months. I'm looking for some thing to give me some better range. Right now I have the s&w mp15 with 16 barrel. I am debating on wether I should build an upper in 6.5 Grendel or something that can handle heavier 223 rounds.

The 223 would be cheaper over all especially the intial investment. With the 6.5 the intial investment is greater. Not only the barrel but brass and dies. The ballistics greatly favor the 6.5 but cost and effort favor the 223. It would mostly be a paper puncher but yotes wistle pigs and maybe deer might be targets.

The reason for a upper and not a whole rifle is the upper can turn into a new rifle over time(the wife won't notice ) max range for me is around 600 but eventually probably further. Cost would be under 600

[mopeman440]

If you are limiting yourself to $600 and 600yards, I'd stick with the .223/556 and go with the heavier bullets. A 1/7 twist rate, 20" to 24" barrel with 62gr and heavier bullets will get the job done. The 6.5 is awesome, but the initial invest would break the bank. Or if you want speed, the .204 ruger is a smoking round to think about.

[TrooperBrian]

I think 24" would really be pushing it. The .223 isn't a very large case, and by that much barrel the powder is already burned up and starting to drag. I'd probably keep it 20" or under.

[Grumblecakes]

midway does have a Alexander arms barrel 1/8.5 24" combined with a receiver would put it about 600.

[Nomad]

 Have a 223 with a 24" barrel shoots real nice with the 75gr hornady
using 24gr  RL-15, Win cases, and the 205 primers shoot a lot of
rock chucks with it.
 I have given a lot of thought to the 68 and the 65 for other things
in the AR platform coat and related items have stayed with the 223...
 Luck with your choice.......

[fj40mojo]

If it were me, I'd bite the bullet so to speak, spend the cash to get the Grendel. What I've read about the cartridge sounds like a winner. It's no secret that I'm pretty fond of the 6.5s. Great sectional density, superior BC, inherently accurate, it's a great caliber and the Grendel looks to be about the best all around cartridge sized to fit in the AR15 platform. Yep, it's gonna cost you more for bullets and brass, but you are getting a lot for your money.

[carharttfarmer]

if your going to step up in cailber id go with an olympic k8 upper in one of the wssm calibers 223 243 or 25 but the uppers are about 750

[mopeman440]

Just to damn many choices!!!

[Grumblecakes]

lol ALOT of choices. right now im considering 223 AI. but need to do a bit more research

[ballardw]

There's also the 6mm/233 or 6x45. The 223 necked up to 6mm. Allows use of standard bolt and magazine if kept within correct overall length. The bullets much over 75 grains need to be seated too deep for the magazines. I believe Les Baer and High Standard are offering this at two different price points.

There's also a 6.5 MPC which is the 223 necked up to 6.5 but I'm not impressed with ballistics but the lightest bullets start in the 80 gr. range.

[Grumblecakes]

Im gonna go with the 223 for now. (after i move i'll build a Grendel)

I keep coming across alot of conflicting info tho.

how much twist is needed to stabilize a 69 and 77gr bullet? some say 1/9 some say 1/8 i've read this depends on velocity and barrel length.

alot of people seem to like the AI chamber. I kinda like the idea of doing something different and some performance gains are made. how much does it cost to get the chamber reamed to AI specs?

also how much would a bull barrel cost to thread for a suppressor?

thanks
brian

[Grumblecakes]

We'll I acutually found a good deal from Alexander basicly barrel bolt and reciver. No gas system or hand guard. But those are fairy cheap. So I'm gonna get it when he funds come up.
Figure I would get want I want now and not regret not getting it.

Dies are a bit spendy and if anyone has 7.62x39 brass brass I migh be nterested in buying some. Othe wise I.ll buy some cheap 7.62x39 pull the bullet and use what's left to form the case

[fj40mojo]

The Hornady brass is pretty reasonable. Lapua is a bit spendy.

http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=6.5grendel+brass&ech=18&psi=eK88TKLBIZGgsQPPt-R812790455115250&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=hK88TI_FLYfksQOlpMnaCg&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQrQQwAA

[Nealio]

If you want to shoot a heavier bullet, why not get a 7.62 upper?  Surplus ammo is cheaper than you can make it yourself, then if you want something more accurate you make your own..
I'm sure I"m the minority, but I don't the value in something like the Grendel where you get slightly better ballistics for 5 times the price of a 7.62x39.
 - Nealio

[J Mack]

You might look at this?


6.8mm SPC Upper Receiver
6.8mm SPC Caliber * 16" M4 Profile Barrel * with 26 Round 6.8mm Magazine Mount a "Bushmaster of a higher caliber" on your existing Lower! The .270 cal. 6.8mm SPC (Special Purpose Cartridge) was developed for the military, but is now available commercially. Velocity averages a bit over 2600 FPS (with Hornady 115 Gr. V-Max), and the heavier bullet weights deliver a terminal energy capable of bringing down larger game. Complete 6.8mm SPC Barreled Upper Receiver Assemblies include one 26 Round Magazine.
MSRP: $785.00
Sale Price: Starting at $559.95

Link: http://www.bushmaster.com/products.asp?cat=6

[Grumblecakes]

I've still got alot of options on the table. Kinda agrevated that aa controls the cartridge so ridgidly. And by some accounts intentionally sets up bottle necks when prices drop. The 6.8 doesn't look bad. The 264 lbc is a grendle clone Im lookin into as well. So man choices.

[Jeff]

There are "clones" of the 6.5 Grendel.  I'd never buy one from AA.

[icedruid]

I bought 4 lowers a couple of years back.  My first build was a flat top HBAR for myself.  Second build was a M-4gery for my son.  My last build in January of this year was my attempt at a target rifle in .223 Rem.  I came in a little over the $600 dollar mark but, in the end, it was worth every penny.

The build components are as follows:
Daniel Defense Upper Receiver - $114.00
DPMS 24" Fluted Stainless Steel Barrel - $259.00
JP Enterprises VTAC Free Float Handguard - $170.00
Daniel Defense Bolt Carrier Assembly - $156.00
Gas Tube, Charging Handle, etc. - $50

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I'm getting 1/4 MOA groups out of it using SMK 69 grain bullets.  Slightly less than 1/2 MOA with Nosler 55 grain ballistic tips.  Many whistle pigs met their demise this spring with this rifle.  It's a hoot and a half to shoot.

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The remaining lower will be dedicated to a 6.5 Grendel build but I'm putting that off for a while.

[Nealio]

My 24" Bushmaster Varmiter will put 5 of my handloads in a dime at 100 yards or hit a milk jug with the first shot at 400 yards. I shoot 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips.

[Grumblecakes]

im calling model one tomorrow to check on lead times and ask if the bolt is included. they mention the assembled uppers are head spaced but are kinda vague if they include the bolt or if they are using a grendel style bolt or a 763x45 bolt.

if anyone knows i would e greatful. if not i will post what i find out on the phone.

model one looks like the best option price wise and not alot of bad is being said about them.

[J Mack]

im calling model one tomorrow to check on lead times and ask if the bolt is included. they mention the assembled uppers are head spaced but are kinda vague if they include the bolt or if they are using a grendel style bolt or a 763x45 bolt.

if anyone knows i would e greatful. if not i will post what i find out on the phone.

Check the pull down menu: ADD BOLT CARRIER GROUP & CHARGING HANDLE

Price between  $140 to $156 depending on options.

[Grumblecakes]

called model 1. their lead time is 2-3 weeks and you have to specify that you want a bolt for your carrier

[Grumblecakes]

well ive swung back the other way. found out moving to bozeman is gonna cost me and the wife around 2500 dollars. and its gonna take another month after that to cash out my persi so cash will be tight on this build. gonna go with a dpms 223 24in. 1/8 or 1/9 probably with a tube style reciver (something diffrent gonna be a target gun not a 'work gun' like the carbine upper i already have)

im still wondering what the price would be to ream out the chamber to Ackely specs. im thinking that small boost in case volume could help with heavy bullets. and compared to setting up to reload it is WAY cheaper since all i will need is a set of dies. with the added advantage of being able to shoot standard 223

[J Mack]

IMHO The advantages of being able to shoot standard .223 or 556 in a gas gun out way the advantages of the AI, with a 24" 1-9 twist .223 rem chambered AR I shoot everything from a 36gr to a 62gr hand loads at good speed and I don't have to screw with all the brass prep for the Ackely. I lose 30% of my brass every time I varmint hunt with an AR and it sucks enough with just the moderate brass prep I do.
If you where building a bolt gun I think the Ackely would be the heat and well worth the extra brass prep.   

[No-One]

The problem with building  a 223 AI on an AR platform is twofold . First you have a much steeper shoulder angle on the shell case which can and will cause feed problems . Second , your magazine length on a .223 is fairly short to begin with so you cannot set bullets out further to actually take advantage of your extra case capacity since the bullet has to set past where the extra capacity is created (in the neck) .

Just my .02 from someone who looked at building a 223 AI AR-15 long and hard and did a lot of homework in the process .